Best CPU for chess engine game analysis

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binchunsu

Does anyone know how LCZero with RTX 2070 compares to Stockfish with i7-9700K

drmrboss
binchunsu wrote:

Does anyone know how LCZero with RTX 2070 compares to Stockfish with i7-9700K

Probably the same. You need to test GPU and CPU speed in ur machines.( If Leela ratio is 1 or 1/875 speed of CPU, the results are equal).

But again, without opening book, SF will lose, but with too deep opening book, leela will lose.

Canutus

Apols for resurrecting an old Thread, but I'm trying to get into correspondence/centaur chess more seriously'

In 2020 what do you need as a chess UI?

Is Arena sufficient and how does it compare to Fritz or Aquarium?

Any insights would be appreciated.

pfren
Canutus έγραψε:

Apols for resurrecting an old Thread, but I'm trying to get into correspondence/centaur chess more seriously'

In 2020 what do you need as a chess UI?

Is Arena sufficient and how does it compare to Fritz or Aquarium?

Any insights would be appreciated.

 

GUI is not very relevant.

I know many ICCF players use Aquarium because of IDeA, while I do not bother at all- I mostly use SCID vs PC, CorrChess (Stockfish tuned for LTC) and my brains.

You should be very careful during the opening, where the engine is useless- you will need a very good and fully updated chess database, including games from most correspondence servers.

Canutus
pfren wrote:
Canutus έγραψε:

Apols for resurrecting an old Thread, but I'm trying to get into correspondence/centaur chess more seriously'

In 2020 what do you need as a chess UI?

Is Arena sufficient and how does it compare to Fritz or Aquarium?

Any insights would be appreciated.

 

GUI is not very relevant.

I know many ICCF players use Aquarium because of IDeA, while I do not bother at all- I mostly use SCID vs PC, CorrChess (Stockfish tuned for LTC) and my brains.

You should be very careful during the opening, where the engine is useless- you will need a very good and fully updated chess database, including games from most correspondence servers.

Thanks for the reply, I have an old version of Fritz which I use for databases but when analysing with modern engines like Stockfish my rather ancient computer slows to a crawl and can't be used for anything else.

I haven't tried Scid v PC, but was thinking of initially trying Arena to see if it was less resource hungry than Fritz.

How important is hardware, do I need a new machine?

pfren
Canutus έγραψε:
pfren wrote:
Canutus έγραψε:

Apols for resurrecting an old Thread, but I'm trying to get into correspondence/centaur chess more seriously'

In 2020 what do you need as a chess UI?

Is Arena sufficient and how does it compare to Fritz or Aquarium?

Any insights would be appreciated.

 

GUI is not very relevant.

I know many ICCF players use Aquarium because of IDeA, while I do not bother at all- I mostly use SCID vs PC, CorrChess (Stockfish tuned for LTC) and my brains.

You should be very careful during the opening, where the engine is useless- you will need a very good and fully updated chess database, including games from most correspondence servers.

Thanks for the reply, I have an old version of Fritz which I use for databases but when analysing with modern engines like Stockfish my rather ancient computer slows to a crawl and can't be used for anything else.

I haven't tried Scid v PC, but was thinking of initially trying Arena to see if it was less resource hungry than Fritz.

How important is hardware, do I need a new machine?

 

A machine with an effective multicore CPU would certainly help- e.g. Ryzen 5 3600 is a steal for a 12-core, and also very reliable.

NTBT_DHS

How about AMD Threadripper 3970X? I am using it 32 cores and 64 threads. Which engine is best for it?

pfren
NTBT_DHS έγραψε:

How about AMD Threadripper 3970X? I am using it 32 cores and 64 threads. Which engine is best for it?

 

If you already have it, then Stockfish should be fine- or, for in-depth analysis, CorrChess,

You could also consider Crystal, which is a "slow" version of Stockfish, but it has special anti-fortress code included.

In any case, I wouldn't dare to use the Threadripper with the stock cooler- either watercooling, or a Noctua classical cooler should be used instead, else chances to fry your expensive CPU are there.

Another option, costing much less money, is a mainsteram PC (almost any CPU should do the trick), plus a last generation GeForce RTX series videocard (you can also combine two of them if you can afford the $$$), and Leela/ Fat Fritz (the latter engine is commercial).

drmrboss
NTBT_DHS wrote:

How about AMD Threadripper 3970X? I am using it 32 cores and 64 threads. Which engine is best for it?

 

Spitting your money on both CPU and GPU is the best idea!!

 

The strongest engine is the combination of Leela on 2080 Ti plus Stockfish on 16 cores cpu ( as Stockfish SMP is poor beyond 16 cores, you dont get double benefits from 16 to 32 corrs  32 to 64 cores, instead +30 %, +20% etc). And Leela has been praised by 2015 iccf champ as if perfect Tablebase in opening.

 

Here is also one test who split the phase of two engines.

pfren
drmrboss έγραψε:
NTBT_DHS wrote:

How about AMD Threadripper 3970X? I am using it 32 cores and 64 threads. Which engine is best for it?

 

Spitting your money on both CPU and GPU is the best idea!!

 

The strongest engine is the combination of Leela on 2080 Ti plus Stockfish on 16 cores cpu ( as Stockfish SMP is poor beyond 16 cores, you dont get double benefits from 16 to 32 corrs  32 to 64 cores, instead +30 %, +20% etc). And Leela has been praised by 2015 iccf champ as if perfect Tablebase in opening.

 

Here is also one test who split the phase of two engines.

 

 

Ljubicic suggestions are always welcome, although personally I wouldn't care that much: A great engine does not make a great correspondence player.

A well-worked out database is an absolute must, and the second must is time and devotion to your ongoing games. I am about to win the 2016 IECG/LSS correspondence World Championship cycle (I need 1,5/2 for clear first, and I have two ongoing games- one with a decisive advantage, and another with a large, probably not convertable one). I am using my sophisticated database, an oldschool GUI (Scid vs PC), CorrChess, an old rig with 16G RAM and a non-overclocked i7-4790K, which is a slow CPU by modern standards (just six threads out of possible eight since it is my everyday PC and I do some other work on it), and my personal chess experience. So far, so good!

drmrboss
Howhorseymove wrote:
I like to look at this topic from a potential coders point of view. Suppose you decide that you are going to spend 3 or 4 months to optimize the code so that it works great with an 8 core system. So I spend 3 or 4 months to have it optimized to work on an 8 core system and ignore other improvements that could be made.

After 3 or 4 months you release the code and you get a lot of praise but find that only 3 percent of your user base can make use of that feature. That was not time well spent.

Coders are usually trying to find a way to make their code do more in less time while trying to avoid creating a bugs or glitches as a result of reworking the logic of a program.

I don’t think chess programs are focused on using multiple cores as much as trying to optimize for the most common features that a user might have on their system.

Stockfish codes had been modified  40,000 + times and tested  2 billions + games, one of the most fine tuned program in the world.

 

It is not due to the weakness of program, it is due to nature of search.  In initial position, there are 20 possible moves, but SF search mostly 2-3 promising moves ( branches) and keep searching deeper and deeper. 

 

If you have 20 cpu, 3 cpu will be searching for the most promising moves like 1. e4 or 1. d4 or 1. Nf3 ( the other 17 possible moves like 1. g4 1. f3 etc will be almost excluded in search from AB pruning except a small short nodes search).

 

Because of Alpha Beta pruning system, parallel search in massive CPU is not that useful. 

drmrboss

And also due to the nature of chess, the search trees will  be overlapping somewhere. For example,

CPU A is searching 1. e4 c5 2.Nf3

CPU B is searching 1. Nf3 c5 3. e4

 

And now you see the two search trees become overlap, wasting the power of 1 CPU.

anonym_anonym1

 Xeon 2697 v2(12 core CPU) is still strong for chess?

pfren
anonym_anonym1 wrote:

 Xeon 2697 v2(12 core CPU) is still strong for chess?

 

Just average. Slightly weaker than a $200 R5-3600, while consuming about double energy. Still, not bad at all for a CPU aged 7-8 years.

anonym_anonym1
pfren написал:
anonym_anonym1 wrote:

 Xeon 2697 v2(12 core CPU) is still strong for chess?

 

Just average. Slightly weaker than a $200 R5-3600, while consuming about double energy. Still, not bad at all for a CPU aged 7-8 years.

whats about  AMD 2700X it is better  then Xeon  2697v2... seems I will buy AMD ,thanks for Advise! 

 

play4fun64

Which is better for Stockfish? Ryzen 9 5950 or Intel 12900K?

blueemu
pfren wrote:

But you can get excellent results (easily some 14M nodes per second) with a cheap FX-8350 for just $190. Sure enough the FX-8350 is a weaker CPU than i7 3930k, but the difference when it comes to chess is too small to justify the huge price gap (the 3930 costs 2.5 times more).

The AMD FX series could be the ideal budget choice for chess servers, but unfortunately their architecture does not allow more than one CPU per rig (same applies for the expensive i7's).

I had an 8-core AMD Bulldozer back when I was working at the Tactics School, and I LOVED it.

For the price, it's almost impossible to beat.

It eventually blew a power supply and I bought a new i5 rig, but I still remember that 8-core AMD with fondness.

play4fun64
play4fun64 wrote:

Which is better for Stockfish? Ryzen 9 5950 or Intel 12900K?

Someone answer please.

anonym_anonym1
play4fun64 написал:
play4fun64 wrote:

Which is better for Stockfish? Ryzen 9 5950 or Intel 12900K?

Someone answer please.

better and fast intel 12900k

Fluffster_56-inactive
mldavis617 wrote:

I think the basic problem is that most chess engines are written by amateurs, a few of them being commercialized. You'll usually see the programmer's name associated with any engine you find, including Houdini. The problem with off-loading calculations to the GPU is that the program must have been written to accommodate that. It isn't, as far as I know, simply a function of the CPU seeing all that GPU horsepower out there and sending the load away for faster computation. The program must be written to utilize the GPU, and not knowing what GPU is available since it varies with the system, I don't think our engines are (yet) capable of speeding up with a powerful GPU onboard.

This is the primary function of the engine framework for the neural networking of Lc0. The search protocols utilize the GPU for calculations.