You say two completely opposite things:
- As a rule of thumb I like to trade Bishop's for Knights as early in the game as possible
- Trading a lesser range (knight) for a greater range (bishop) is advantageous the way I look at it.
Bishop Worth More Than Knight
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I'm confused...
Jan 7, 2016
0
#4
What makes rooks so much stronger than bishops (imho) is that they can truly 'own' a file or rank. - for example, a king cannot pass an open line that has a rook on it. It takes 2 bishops to do this on a diagonal. There are a great many positions where knights are better. I used to think the way you do about it, but now I not so much. I'll trade one for the other without much thought to their overall general value, depending on which one is better in a specific position at a specific turn.
GMKimJong-Un wrote:
the endless bishop vs knight debate...
1) as notmtwain pointed out, you contradict yourself
2) the greater range of the bishop is actually becoming advantageous later in the game, when and if the position opens up. in the opening knights reign superior as their unique feature of jumping fits the closed nature of the opening phase of a game better.
3) if you want to get a better grasp of bishops vs knights, learn about pawn structures and outposts as those are 2 vital concepts regarding minor piece play.
4) my favorite game where knights reign superior over bishops; just look at Ivanchuks proud knights vs Kasparovs silly bishops in the final position..
All the text I have highlighted in green is true.
All the text I have highlighted in red is not true.
Bishops usually do good in the Opening and in the Endgame.
Knights usually do good in the Middle game.
The reason why is because of something you already know:
Bishops are long range pieces.
Knights are short range pieces.
Now to tell you something you don't know. If you had known you wouldn't of said the statement in red I highlighted.
The bishops are considered better pieces in the opening because in the Opening they can become activated/developed with out being moving.
In some opening lines the bishop is considered developed with out having to move from its home square
Lines such as the Kings Indian Defense.
A perfect example of the light square bishop being considered developed on its original square.
It is actually theory in many of the KID lines for black not to move that bishop for a long time.
The knights are not considered as good as the bishop in the opening.
The reason why is because it is a short range piece and on its home square it really is considered deactivated.
Which is why chess coaches tell beginners to develop knights before bishops.
They are trying to get beginners into the habit of improving the bad pieces first.
Once the Middle game starts than the knights can start to show there power because they have the chance to jump deeper into the enemy territory and since the knight controls squares in a L shape. It makes things very awkard for the enemy.
For an example:
I bring forth a game screen shot from the chess archives:
Anatoly Karpov vs Garry Kasparov
World Championship Match
Game - 16
Moscow 1985
Fiest your eyes on:
The Immortal Octopus Knight Game
The game was named after the Octopodes which inhabit the ocean.
The reason for this is because of the 8 tenticles which Octopodes have.
The knight in the above game is influencing 8 different squares similar to the 8 tenticles octopuses have.
Many people believed the knight had 8 arms like the Octopus.
However, The real truth is that Octopuses do not have 8 arms.
Scientist believe the Octopi have only 6 arms.
They believe the other 2 tenticles are not arms, but instead are legs.
Thus, The Octpus has 6 arms and 2 legs which are 8 in total similar to the 8 squares the knight is influencing.
For more information on The Immortal Octopus Knight Game.
You can look at the below link which shows the game with some annotation:
http://www.chess.com/article/view/the-octopus-knight
You can also check out some nice Youtube Videos featuring the game.
I will put the links below:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8a9gVFXieT0
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8a9gVFXieT0
For more information on Octopuses in general.
I will put the link below:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Octopus
The above game is a powerful example of the terror the knights can bring in the middle game.
However, in the endgame!
The bishops can show there dominance!
For an example:
We travel back in time to revisit a true Bishops Master!
Player name Robert James "Bobby" Fischer!
For an example:
I bring forth a game screen shot from the chess archives:
Edmund Nash vs. Bobby Fischer
Eastern States Open
Washington DC Nov 1956
Fiest your eyes on:
The Power of the Bishop Pair!
White resigns to a 13 year old boy!
Don't mess with the Bishop pair!
For a full game preview of The Bishop Pair Game.
You can check out the below game link:
http://www.chessgames.com/perl/chessgame?gid=1044409
For more information on Bobby Fischer's brillant use of the bishops!
You can check out the below article link:
http://www.chess.com/article/view/fischers-bishops
Bobby Fischer did have several different bishop games. Which I think every single one will blow you away!
The games do have some annotated by Grand Master Daniel Naroditsky
For chess.com membership players!
You can check out a wonderful game played by Bobby Fischer vs Ronald Finegold!
The person doing the commentary in the video is Ronald Finegold's Son!
Grand Master Ben Finegold!
Which is the below video link:
http://www.chess.com/video/player/my-dads-game-with-bobby-fischer
Hopefully the above examples can give everyone on this forum some insight on the Bishops and the Knights.
Bottom Line!
Don't Underestimate the Minor Pieces!
For if you do!
They may become a Major Problem!
I hope this gets sent to off topic soon so motorboat dude and spidey can take over.
DivineFlame777 wrote:
As a rule of thumb I like to trade Bishop's for Knights as early in the game as possible because: 1. In blitz games a move designed to exchange knight for bishop earns you time already know you're next move: Knight x Bishop 2.Bishop has a greater range than the Knight & can be considered a Diagonal Rook. Knight often requires at least 2 moves to reach a dangerous position. But the Bishop cuts a Deadly Swathe across its occupying diagonal from the moment it's placed. 3. Thus to me the Bishop clearly is worth more especially in the opening because of its greater natural range, a Diagonal Rook. Trading a lesser range (knight) for a greater range (bishop) is advantageous the way I look at it.
You're contradicting yourself.
Jan 7, 2016
0
#8
look at Tal games , his use of knights terrorised the chess world till all hailed him the magician
Jan 7, 2016
0
#9
and even after that , knights for crashing through the ranked defence a bish for a bit of mopping up ,
knights are also harder to read in my opinion so can spring the unexpected better
Jan 7, 2016
0
#10
Clearly the author of the Original Post never read Bishop V Knight: The Verdict by Steve Mayer because if he did, he wouldn't have written such utter rubbish!
Anybody that has any form of bias in favor of one minor piece over another is a complete and utter moron!
Play the position, not some biased bullsh*t that your moron mind comes up with. Many positions the Knight is preferable, and many others the Bishop is preferable, even without the pair.
If you had any clue at all about Bishops and Knights, you'd realize when one is better and when the other is better, and closed versus open with pawns on both sides is too general. There are open positions with pawns on both sides where the Knight is better and cases that are closed or semi-closed where the Bishop is still better!
Jan 7, 2016
0
#11
perhaps for me my peferring knights is down to my love of getting stuck in , bishops i like but their long range attack isnt my passion , get stuck in with knights even if it means youre a moron lol
As a rule of thumb I like to trade Knights for Bishops as early in the game as possible because: 1. In blitz games a move designed to exchange knight for bishop earns you time already know you're next move: Knight x Bishop 2.Bishop has a greater range than the Knight & can be considered a Diagonal Rook. Knight often requires at least 2 moves to reach a dangerous position. But the Bishop cuts a Deadly Swathe across its occupying diagonal from the moment it's placed. 3. Thus to me the Bishop clearly is worth more especially in the opening because of its greater natural range, a Diagonal Rook. Trading a lesser range (knight) for a greater range (bishop) is advantageous the way I look at it.