Bobby Fischer on Women in Chess

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anonym

Let those of us lacking in talent, genius or sheer whatchamacallit take consolation where we can find it. With our characteristic panache let us gift the world with our uniquely facile critique of those exemplars of human-all-too-human folly and foible: Bobby Fischer and women.

Bobby Fischer the man albeit immortal is safely dead. “Women” means all female adults but no one in particular. While using “women” to kick Fischer, let us tar them with the brush that we hand-off to Fischer.

Although “women” will still be with us and the games of Bobby Fischer studied and replayed countless times by future generations of chessplayers yet to be “born of woman”, let us take comfort in knowing that we have conquered the moral high-ground of political correctness.

Stay tuned for our regularly scheduled edumacational forum debates on such topics as:

-- why Russian-schooled masters are still teaching chess despite Kotov;
-- why Steinitz was not an American and just how crazy was Morphy;
-- why Howard Staunton was naughty but Staunton chessmen are nice;
-- why we despise Alexander Alekhine even more than Bobby Fischer and/or women;
-- why chessplayers are nothing more than “addictive personalities”;
-- what every self-hating chessplayer should know about chess;
-- how even pesky Caïssa understands that chess is the antithesis of everything feminine.

breakfight
Bajoran_Moon wrote:

Hey, breakfight, hope you aren't assuming I'm picking an argument with you. I'm reading a bit of combative tone in your posts -- I just thought the article was interesting and worth posting, seeing as how "why do men/boys do xyz better than women/girls" has to be the #2 most annoyingly prevalent question in internet discussion forums dominated by males (right after "does size matter")... it is an interesting bit of research to toss into the mix.

Regarding your qeustion about How can it be argued that the lack of women in the top levels of chess is due to the lack of women who play? etc -- the way I read it, they are saying the more people in a population that participate in an activity, the greater likelihood that excellent or superior-performing members of that population will be found to participate and will rise to the top (and vice versa). So long as far fewer women overall play than men there will be that much less of a chance that the individual girls/women who could be superior players will find their way into the ranks in the first place, then go on to play, persist and achieve at the highest levels. You gotta be in it to win it. The chances that out of a million men you will find the next Bobby Fischer is greater than the chances that out of a thousand women you will find the first Barbie Fischer.

But your point about Chess is a game that involves two players. It isn't a battle between two groups, but rather two individuals.... is very well taken. Great point.


 On the contrary, an argument is what I am seeking. But you need not fear as I am not seeking an argument that revolves around the hanging pieces of discourse - the ad hominem Wink

My problem with the article is that while it is true that you have to be in it to win it, to say that one would win it just by being in it is unsound.

TheOldReb
tonydal wrote:
anonym wrote:

“As with Steinitz, Fischer's genius has often been concealed by controversies away from the board. Like Lasker, Fischer has raised chess to new financial heights despite frequent retreats from serious play. And, like Capablanca, Fischer is recognized by millions of non-players and has won the game many new enthusiasts.” -- Andy Soltis

“Fischer was a master of clarity and a king of artful positioning. His opponents would see where he was going but were powerless to stop him. I like to say that Bobby Fischer was the greatest Russian player ever. All of his great opening moves came from the Russians. He studied all of their methods. But what made Fischer a genius was his ability to blend an American freshness and pragmatism with Russian ideas about strategy.” -- Bruce Pandolfini

“He turned the methods of the Soviet school of chess against it: Botvinnik-style scientific study of all areas of the game, in-depth openings preparation that has probably only been equaled or bettered by Kasparov, and a passionate will to win that only Alekhine and Larsen could match.” -- John Nunn (on Fischer)

“Suddenly it was obvious to me in my analysis I had missed what Fischer had found with the greatest of ease at the board.” -- Mikhail Botvinnik

“Fischer is the greatest genius to descend from the chess heavens.” -- Mikhail Tal

“Bobby Fischer is the greatest chess genius of all time!” -- Alexander Kotov

“In complicated positions, Bobby hardly had to be afraid of anybody.” -- Paul Keres

“My God, he plays so simply!” -- Alexei Suetin (speaking of Bobby Fischer)

“When I played Bobby Fischer, my opponent fought against organizations - the television producers and the match organizers. But he never fought against me personally. I lost to Bobby before the match because he was already stronger than I. He won normally.” -- Boris Spassky

“The chess heroes nowadays should not forget that it was owing to Fischer that they are living today in four- and five- star hotels, getting appearance fees, etc.” -- Lev Khariton


So...what is the point of all this?  I mean, everybody knows he was a pretty good player.  But he was still a nut.  Spassky's quote seems...well, a bit of a stretch ("normally"?--that was a pretty crazy match, to put it mildly).  And Lev, I'd say it was more the result of computer sponsorship and appealing champions like Kasparov that all those things are available to "chess heroes," not Fischer (and even if he was indirectly responsible, it was certainly, as I said earlier, nothing which he intended).


 The fact of the matter is that when Spassky won the world championship in 1969 from Petrosian he received less than $2000. as his "prize". Only with Fischer did the money at the top levels of chess become significant. To deny that Fischer worked towards this goal ( not only for himself but for chess at the top in general) is to live in a state of denial and/or hatred of Fischer. Fischer, like Lasker before him, was one of few champions that tried to raise the stakes/conditions for the world's best players. They did this probably because they were not supported by their govts as were Soviet players. Fischer also wanted better playing conditions for players at the top and he helped a great deal in getting this too. As for Spassky's statement that he lost "normally" he is simply pointing out the fact that by 1972 Fischer was already a better player than him which is supported by the fact that Fischer's rating was 100 points higher than Spassky's and Fischer even lost rating points by winning the world championship with a +4 score.

goldendog

The way Reb interprets Spassky's "won normally" is how I always made sense of it.

If that forfeit wasn't rated--and I don't think it was, as an unplayed game--Fischer lost rating points with a +5 score.

TheOldReb
goldendog wrote:

The way Reb interprets Spassky's "won normally" is how I always made sense of it.

If that forfeit wasn't rated--and I don't think it was, as an unplayed game--Fischer lost rating points with a +5 score.


 I stand corrected as I do believe FIDE does NOT rate games that are unplayed.

pakitine

Let the dead rest in peace.

anonym

Garryowen!

Politicalmusic

I'm just happy my thread is a hot topic lol

EdgeOfDefeat

I find this weird, because he was actually close friends with the Polgars later on in his life, played chess with them and went to their house in Budapest. Maybe this misogynystic view was just a kind of teenage-boy's-ego type thing that changed later on in life?

Politicalmusic
EdgeOfDefeat wrote:

I find this weird, because he was actually close friends with the Polgars later on in his life, played chess with them and went to their house in Budapest. Maybe this misogynystic view was just a kind of teenage-boy's-ego type thing that changed later on in life?


This quote is straight from Polgar's blog

"This interview was done 6 years before I was born. When Fischer met me and stayed at my family's home in Hungary back around 1993, he no longer had the same view about women in chess."

Fasternfaster

Inspite of all he was a great player, and every great man had have some scandals to down him or up towards the sky! Smile a half glass of water could be say half empty or half filled? Depends on individuals' school of though! Bobby was lived for chess and he died with chess!

breakfight

I don't understand why everyone is getting on Bobby Fischer's case. He was a chess player, not a politician.

Politicalmusic

I agree

TheGrobe

Which is probably a good argument for keeping your political views out of your radio interviews....

Kupov

Herm... it seems like everyone is dismissing all of the good things that Fischer did by saying that he "did it only for himself", or "he was a nut".

If Fischer can't be held accountable for all the good that he did, than why is it fair to hold him accountable for all the bad?

TheGrobe

I don't know that I've seen anyone deny his mastery on the board or his positive impact on the popularity of chess and the available prize money for top end tournaments -- have I missed something?

Kupov

Look, I understand your desire to win an argument, but in the future please try to at least read my post, alright?

I never said that people denied his contributions to the popularity of chess, or the prize money did I? And obviously I never said that anyone attempted to argue against his chess ability.

I said that there has been a tendency throughout this thread where people attempt to discredit the positive things that Fischer did by claiming that he was either insane or simply doing it for himself.

Kupov

I never said that it was a heroic action, did I?

valyar
richie_and_oprah wrote:

Making such sacrifices as did Fischer for a game is not heroic.  Well adjusted individuals do not choose such paths voluntarilly.

 There is an implicit value judgement here. Are you saying that "well adjusted" is good and sacrificing yourself for others is bad?

Kupov
richie_and_oprah wrote:
Kupov wrote:

I never said that it was a heroic action, did I?


I never stated that you stated that, did I?

 

But your gushing and unbridled infatuations betray your inner emotion and shine through your words like a stong light through tissue paper.


Nope, I'm not portraying Fischer as some sort of hero, nor do I think of him as one.

He was a deepy disturbed individual and he was unable to cope with life outside of chess. That being said, I do think that it is incredibly unfair for someone living a normal life to pass judgement on Fischers character.