Can you really become a class A player by studying tactics?

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Avatar of Till_98

For everyone who wants to study tactics: http://www.chess.com/blog/Till_98/huge-tactics-training

Avatar of ipcress12

Ziryab: Yes, I read and like your blog! At least when I remember I can look it up through your profile:

http://chessskill.blogspot.com/

Anyway, folks, Ziryab is a testament to slow and steady improvement. As I recall, he has advanced ~100 points per year until he is just shy of 2000.

Avatar of jhan17

Openings are all you need to study to get to master level.

Avatar of A1Rajjpuut

Hi,

          Definitely, that's precisely how I did it some 32 or so years ago when I was middle-aged and in my heyday.  Now, is that the only thing I studied.  Of course NOT. I got to a peak rating around 1983-4 of 1937 I believe with 95% of my study on endgames, chess puzzles, TACTICS, and miniature games (under 20 moves in Short Games books), especially in my favorite openings. But then again I'd also read Hans Kmoch's Pawn Power in Chess and a book called Point-Count Chess which was all about positional considerations.  I'd raised my rating from 1309 to 1516 or so but couldn't seem to improve.  Than I noticed that just about every master and stronger player I talked to said they'd read Reinfeld and Chernev's Winning Chess (How to See Three Moves Ahead) which introduced them and me to 16 different tactical themes I believe . . . and that book and endgame study is what all the truly good players I talked to back then said "helped me improve the most and the fastest."  Of course, I then went roughly 25 years with only rare chess play . . . and that's definitely the thing that hurt me the most, so I DO NOT recommend that.  Good luck.

          Bob


Avatar of TheGreatOogieBoogie

Speaking of La Maza he's probably underrated as a player since to win a section (especially such a big open) you'd be against some underrated people.  There's probably some 16 year old kid he took out who was rated 1950 but whose playing strength is above 2100 for example. 

Avatar of TheGreatOogieBoogie

I don't agree with his study method but he did win the U2000 section at the world open. He likely has a natural talent for positional and endgame play so likely just needed to work on his only relative weakness.  It's like an athlete who is naturally big boned and doesn't need to lift weights to be strong, so they spend time mostly jumping rope and dot drills to enhance agility. 

Avatar of ipcress12

TGOB: However, it's a different story if MDLM was getting a leg up from a concealed computer.

MDLM explains how he chooses moves:
* Understand what my opponent is threatening.
* If opponent has serious threat, respond.
* If no threat, calculate a tactical sequence.
* If no tactical sequence, implement a very simple plan.

MDLM explains how he makes a plan:
* Improve the mobility of pieces.
* Prevent opponent from castlilng.
* Trade-off pawns.
* Keep the queens on the board.

http://www.masschess.org/Chess_Horizons/Articles/2001-04_Sample_400_Points_Part_2.pdf

By his own account MDLM does not work from natural positional and endgame talents. He just roams around the board, responding to threats, making combinations, or improving his position in utterly rudimentary ways. And that's what his three games look like.

Oddly enough his description of his play sounds a lot like a computer algorithm...

Avatar of ipcress12

Speaking of La Maza he's probably underrated as a player since to win a section (especially such a big open) you'd be against some underrated people.

TGOB: The other odd thing is that when MDLM won the U2000 section of the World Open, his rating was not leveling off but had lifted off at a very steep angle.

http://main.uschess.org/datapage/ratings_graph.php?memid=12775875

When he quit, MDLM was not on a plateau but was in the midst of another big rating breakthrough.

The cynical explanation, though, is that he had been using a computer all along but had been intentionally losing some games to maintain the appearance of steady, reasonable improvement. Then in his final tournament he let the computer play full strength, won his $10,000 and bowed out of chess forever to avoid skeptical scrutiny.

Avatar of SilentKnighte5

Didn't MDLM claim to have read How to Reassess Your Chess?  So he knew about positional, strategic play, but he didn't know how to not have his plans be refuted tactically.  Once he covered that weakness, he was able to employ his other chess knowledge in his games.

Again, I'm fairly certain that you can become 1400-1500 doing 90% tactical study.  1800+ seems very unlikely.

You can look at the improvement of the Knights Errant from 10 years ago for some data points.  All the players who started with very low (U1200) ratings, were able to gain 300-400 points.   The bottom of the list is littered with folks who were 1600+ when they began.

http://temposchlucker.blogspot.com/2005/05/ratingprogress-of-knights-errant.html

Avatar of SilentKnighte5
ipcress12 wrote:

Speaking of La Maza he's probably underrated as a player since to win a section (especially such a big open) you'd be against some underrated people.

TGOB: The other odd thing is that when MDLM won the U2000 section of the World Open, his rating was not leveling off but had lifted off at a very steep angle.

http://main.uschess.org/datapage/ratings_graph.php?memid=12775875

When he quit, MDLM was not on a plateau but was in the midst of another big rating breakthrough.

The cynical explanation, though, is that he had been using a computer all along but had been intentionally losing some games to maintain the appearance of steady, reasonable improvement. Then in his final tournament he let the computer play full strength, won his $10,000 and bowed out of chess forever to avoid skeptical scrutiny.

Based on comments from Bright Knight's blog (I didn't verify myself), MDLM was 2/11 vs 2000+ competition.

A less cynical explanation was that he was slightly underrated for an U2000 tournament and had a very good tournament, as would be true for any winner of a 9 round tournament.  As we've mentioned earlier in this thread, a single performance rating doesn't make you that rating.

Anyone who nearly sweeps the field in a 9 round tournament will appear to be on the midst of a big rating spike as well.

Considering how popular he became, you'd think if any of his opponents at the World Open had any suspicions, they'd have come forward by now with game scores as proof.

Avatar of ipcress12

SK5: Yes, I've looked over the MDLM at other sites including temposchlucker. I have no doubt people can reach 1400-1500 using tactical study ... or without it for that matter.

However from what I've read no one has duplicated MDLM's run from 1400 to 2041 in two years using only tactical study.

Although he had read Silman, he says outright, "I implement very simple plans (as opposed to Silman, Kotov, and Pachman-like plans) that improve the probability that there will be a tactical shot."

I don't know for certain that MDLM cheated. It just strikes me as the simplest explanation a la Occam's Razor.

Avatar of SmyslovFan
ipcress12 wrote:

...
However from what I've read no one has duplicated MDLM's run from 1400 to 2041 in two years using only tactical study.

Although he had read Silman, he says outright, "I implement very simple plans (as opposed to Silman, Kotov, and Pachman-like plans) that improve the probability that there will be a tactical shot."

I don't know for certain that MDLM cheated. It just strikes me as the simplest explanation a la Occam's Razor.

The rating jump isn't as unusual as you may think. I have a friend who went from ~900 to 2500 USCF in just a few years. Two years is plenty of time to improve. 

But, even Michael de la Maza didn't do it on tactics alone, as he himself admits. Nobody has ever made the rating jump following de la Maza's method, including de la Maza himself!

Avatar of SilentKnighte5
ipcress12 wrote:

SK5: Yes, I've looked over the MDLM at other sites including temposchlucker. I have no doubt people can reach 1400-1500 using tactical study ... or without it for that matter.

However from what I've read no one has duplicated MDLM's run from 1400 to 2041 in two years using only tactical study.

Although he had read Silman, he says outright, "I implement very simple plans (as opposed to Silman, Kotov, and Pachman-like plans) that improve the probability that there will be a tactical shot."

Simple plans and striving for open games where you could apply calculation seems like it suited Morphy, Anderssen and others well.   How many class A/B players do you think are really implementing Pachman-like plans anyway?

He obviously read their material, and even if he wasn't sitting at the board thinking "ok what would Silman do here?" doesn't mean that the ideas didn't contribute to his candidate move selection.

"However from what I've read no one has duplicated MDLM's run from 1400 to 2041 in two years using only tactical study. "

As has been demonstrated in this thread, even MDLM didn't run up to 2041 using only tactical study.  It's just what he chose to ascribe his success to.

Just because you think cheating is the simplest explanation doesn't make it so.  He played in a large chess club in Boston that counts many master players in the ranks.  He played over 100 games in the course of a year and no one was suspicious?  No one raised a hint of doubt after he became a chess celebrity?  Cheating isn't the simplest explanation, it's just the one that requires the least amount of effort to think of.

He was unemployed and studied and played hard for 12 months.  He sat around really strong players and got tips from them.  He listened to how they analyzed games.   He was a very smart guy to begin with and very motivated.  Why is "cheating" the simplest explanation and not hard work?

Avatar of SmyslovFan

I have a student who was rated ~900 in 2012 and is currently rated +2000 USCF. The rating gain is remarkable, but not impossible.

Avatar of Mauve26

I'd think so.

Avatar of SilentKnighte5
SmyslovFan wrote:

I have a student who was rated ~900 in 2012 and is currently rated +2000 USCF. The rating gain is remarkable, but not impossible.

And he cheated, amirite?

Avatar of SmyslovFan

That is just insulting to him. He paid for weekly lessons and got better due to some really hard work on his part. This guy has a fantastic memory. Occasionally, I'd give him a position from a classic game, and he'd tell me which game it was from! He put in the hours and hard work necessary to get good at the game.

There just aren't any short-cuts to chess excellence. 

Avatar of DrCheckevertim
SmyslovFan wrote:

This guy has a fantastic memory. Occasionally, I'd give him a position from a classic game, and he'd tell me which game it was from!

Yeah, that will do it...

Avatar of ipcress12

Pay attention to the bolded clause. I said:

However from what I've read no one has duplicated MDLM's run from 1400 to 2041 in two years using only tactical study.

Avatar of leiph18
SmyslovFan wrote:

That is just insulting to him. He paid for weekly lessons and got better due to some really hard work on his part. This guy has a fantastic memory. Occasionally, I'd give him a position from a classic game, and he'd tell me which game it was from! He put in the hours and hard work necessary to get good at the game.

There just aren't any short-cuts to chess excellence. 

Other than a good memory, sure :p