Carlsen on Nakamura: "Inept"

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ghostofmaroczy
CorfitzUlfeldt wrote:
ghostofmaroczy wrote:

Is that because Hikaru Nakamura is a St Louis Blues ice hockey fan?

Or is it because Hikaru Nakamura is ethnically Japanese and loyally American?

CorfitzUlfeldt, What is your answer?

Neither. It has more to do with him comming across as slightly douchey.

I see.

So you're more of a fan of the Tampax Bay Lightning?

Anadar
Daniel_Pi wrote:

@Scottrf: Well, I thought it was clear in my post. I was talking about Kramnik at his best playing stronger than Carlsen at his best. I'm talking about their actual strength at their "peak" performance. Who's better at sustaining a reasonably high level of performance over the course of a tournament is obviously a completely different question.

I don't know what you mean by "flawless." He's played a lot of games that are very impressive, for sure. But I think Kramnik's trademark is just to create games that are almost like lessons -- where he finds some opening novelty that creates some quirk in the position -- some sort of fixed color complex or a passed pawn. And he just methodically milks that advantage with these deceptively simple moves, which when you run it through a computer, rely on critical lines that are many moves deep. And then he cashes it out in some winning (albeit difficult) endgame, which he plays perfectly, and the whole thing feels like it's like a composition from beginning to end.

Carlsen's best games feel more like Karpov (also a favorite of mine). He just nudges and nudges and doesn't make mistakes, and eventually he nudges his opponent until he runs out of good moves, or makes a small mistake, upon which Carlsen can pounce. I think that's a very good practical way of playing. With a few notable exceptions, I think the players with the best tournament results tend to play like that. But I think when matched up against Kramnik in top form, Carlsen's nudge approach isn't effective. 

I guess this sort of makes sense. To play like Kramnik in top form, I imagine, requires enormous amounts of energy. Carlsen gets excellent results expending considerably less energy, so overall, it's probably a better way of approaching the game. And I suppose the results bear that out. 

As for "proving" it -- it's a subjective assessment. I never really understood why people were always demanding proofs for every claim. Outside of mathematics and logic, you can't ever "prove" anything. All you can do is provide evidence. And when it comes to something like estimating how strong a chess player is at his best -- it's really not easy to provide evidence. It's a subjective evaluation. 

I also think that Federer at his best is better than Nadal at his best, even though their head-to-head is WAY in Nadal's favor. I just think that Nadal almost always plays at or near his peak, whereas Federer is prone to dips in concentration. Also, there are other factors like surface and playing style, but this isn't a tennis forum, so I won't get into those details. The point is that the abstract notion of a player's "best," is something that's not easy to measure. Maybe there's some way to be more formal about it by running games through chess engines, but I doubt that's entirely conclusive.

Daniel, I think your comments are very insightful. Thank you!

gaton170

Todos se estan olvidando del jugador mas grande los tiempo modernos: el que siempre le ganò al  gran Karpov: Kasparov!

Spiffe

I met Carlsen once, at an autograph signing at a tradeshow in Las Vegas. He was polite and accommodating to all involved, though I wouldn't have described him as 'warm' or 'engaging'; perhaps more tired than anything. Nothing wrong with that; I've long thought that celebrity must be exhausting. So many strangers you meet have such an interest in you, and often get disappointed when you don't have the same interest in every one of them as well. The 'Carlsen is a dick' interview posted earlier in the thread has that vibe to me.

Perhaps the more interesting experience I had with him was on the way out. I was waiting for a companion at the entrance to the Vegas monorail outside the convention center as the tradeshow emptied for the day, and at one point along came Carlsen with his sponsors. He got on the crowded monorail just like anyone else and rode away, and it struck me that clearly no one around him had any recognition that they were rubbing shoulders with THE World Chess Champion. I'm sure Tiger Woods, and many celebrities, would love that kind of anonymity at times.

TheRocketKing
Superqueen500 wrote:

Nakamura is gonna retire if he gets 2-0'd by Carlsen again

shut up little shit, get over here and lets do it!

WobblySquares

Carlsen even broke a smile on camera when he said that. The nerve. He rarely does that..smile.

Get the impression both are somewhat enjoying this back and forth thing anyway. Nothing too serious and they might even be putting us on. (Though Nakamure would REALLY like to win someday.)

humblegar

I think people think too much about little things.

If you read what he said about the rest of the field, the answer about Nakamura is obviously a joke.

One could imagine that his manager might, or should, advice him to be more selective about his jokes, but the sames goes for Nakamura :p

I do think he finds it funny that Nakamura struggles against him, but everyone has difficult opponents.

DrCheckevertim
WobblySquares wrote:

Get the impression both are somewhat enjoying this back and forth thing anyway.

Yeah I think so too.

ghostofmaroczy
gaton170 wrote:

Todos se estan olvidando del jugador mas grande los tiempo modernos: el que siempre le ganò al  gran Karpov: Kasparov!

The patron Saint of the Internet is from Seville.

succenna
fabelhaft wrote:
rnunesmagalhaes wrote:
succenna wrote:
rnunesmagalhaes wrote:
succenna wrote:

Carlsen taking potshots at Kramnik is also well known - got to kick 'em while they are down! Btw I called 12 yo Carlsen a patzer - so it's always fun to eat your own words

Didn't hear about those. Care to share a link?

http://susanpolgar.blogspot.mx/2014/03/carlsen-kramnik-thinks-he-knows.html

http://www.chessdom.com/13-year-old-magnus-bought-every-word-kramnik-said/

Basically he said he liked Kramnik when younger - but when he got older he figured out Kramnik isn't that good nowadays

 

Such a charismatic chap

These discussions are all of course related to Kramnik's earlier remarks about Carlsen, for example:

“I believe that his rating advantage over everyone else is non-chess based”

“in my opinion, his hegemony in the chess world is overestimated”
“I don’t see why he should be a lot stronger, if at all”
“I think he selects his tournaments cleverly, and in those tournaments he really does play at 2825"

"It’s a question of his style of play – he’s very good at cleaning up against the tail-enders”
“in terms of the ability to get a clean sweep against those who are weaker than him he’s of course better”

“the situation where Carlsen got so far ahead of the others was, in my view, unnatural”

“he’s no stronger than Anand or me”

etc etc

Thanks for the play-by-play on Kramnik's comments on Carlsen.

As far as Nakamura - Carlsen indeed confirmed the translation, however, apparently "inept" or "useless" is much more funnier in Norwegian language, and as far as rivalry - last year in St Louis - Nakamura was pretty darn close to putting a whooping on Carlsen with those darn sunglasses and black pieces

All in all = its just fun and games but Magnus Carlsen is still a .... #1 & World Champion Tongue Out

ghostofmaroczy
succenna wrote:

last year in St Louis - Nakamura was pretty darn close to putting a whooping on Carlsen with those darn sunglasses and black pieces

St Louis?  whooping?  black pieces? 

tactics?