Chatting during chess

Maybe I should make a distinction, too, between the chat bar at the bottom of the screen and the message box to the right of the game board-- I have the bottom chat bar disabled all the time because I'm picky about cutting down on the size of my browser window.  My comments in this thread thus far have been about the message box.

It's a tiny bit corny but whenever someone says "hello/greetings from Upper peninsula of Michigan", I always respond with "hello Upper peninsula of Michigan" or "please convey my regards to Upper peninsula of Michigan" which is such a giveaway of my closet geektardness.

That can't come up too often . . . there are only about 5 of us here, and 2 of them haven't been seen since the last blizzard . . . 

As to the response, introductions are a good place for geeky jokes!

--Cystem

Chat , I can take it or leave it but I am never rude unless someone is rude to me. In tournament games leave off the chat during the game, ofcourse. I am speaking of OTB tournament games.

It seems some people dont like to be civil and are even annoyed by those who do make an attempt to be civil. Such people have a "problem" imo. I see more and more of them irl though so I guess finding them on the internet is only natural.

Ok, this is a conversation I have going right now "chatting during chess"... Didn't even start with the hello or good luck to which I've grown accustomed. I have never played him before and have no idea what he's talking about. Schizophrenia?

S: I suck at 960, I'm going to try to think like this australian Sheerwater played

S: I think white often has an advantage.

S: that's why I lost so bad..right?

AfafBouardi: I have no idea what you're talking about.

S: what's morocco like?

S: please tell me if you're going to leave the board indefinitely

AfafBouardi: You mean if I'm going to have lunch or get some sleep?

S: 1:56 in NC,usa but yeah.

AfafBouardi: You're quite high maintenance.

S: good move, but not altogether the truth.

S: truth is what i like :)

S: i know what ur thinking

S: what is a 'good' chance?

S: to u I mean

AfafBouardi: Closer to what I'm thinking is...he seems to be speaking in English...

S: I like people from all over the world in my heart which is in an english 'frame'

S: I'm loving chess.com

AfafBouardi: Yes, it is a nice website. I like it too.

S: your bio says ur occupation is a sabatuer...

S: does that carry over into your chess play

AfafBouardi: Not at all.

S: 960

AfafBouardi: I think I'm going to take that indefinite break

I usually greet my opponent with a brief message hoping he enjoys the game. This avoids the"good luck" dilemma and shows a bit of good will at the same time.

 Arstan wrote:
I've also had a game recently where someone won my queen with a nice move and then wrote "haha" in the chat box. "Haha"?  

Something very similar happened to me. Since I was close to resigning, I decided just to ignore the game and let the clock run down. Whenever anything potentially good is provided, there will always be some miscreant to abuse it.

Afaf, maybe he's chatting with someone else too, and typing some of his responses in the wrong window? 

I believe the time-honored appropriate response to "haha" is "BITE ME!!!!!"

Hey Afaf, if you don't mind me asking, where did you pick up your English? You seem perfectly at ease with it, backstrokes and everything .

Ooops, I deleted his name except for a few times...lol.  Defeats the purpose. 

golden.  Grew up in Europe and the US mostly...usually attending American international schools.  University in the US, also.  My French, on the other hand, is shady. 

My sister was always better at backstroke.  I'm more of a freestyle and butterfly sort of person. :P

That's like those nationally broadcast trials where they have the blue dot over the face of the testifying witness-- except for about 5 seconds where they screw up and the dot doesn't cover the face. 

That is delightful. I'm proud to say I currently hail from NC as well.... Wait. Crap.

Loomis, I think your problem--if you don't mind me calling it that--can be solved by disabling chat immediately (I know this is unfair since it demands "work" on your part). The reality is, if someone extends a hand in real life and gives any shallow formality, which happens frequently, the vast majority of people return the shallow formality. This is how conversations are started, friendships are formed, jobs are earned and people communicate in general.

Many people who choose to play C.C. here realize that there is a real human on the other side, and choose to extend the shallow formality to him/her. If you choose to treat your computer as a box which connects you to strange computers that play chess like real humans, that's fine, don't respond. However, shallow formalities are the base on which human interaction is grounded. Every interaction between people cannot be as complex and in depth as your most esoteric conversations with friends (how did you meet your friends. Did it require shallow formalities?).

You keep asking for a reason why you need to respond, or why the "good luck" is necessary. Well in this new age of the internet, we are in an unusual situation: one where shallow formalities can be ignored to no consequence due to the anonymity of everyone here. However, shallow formalities are still welcome on the internet, as it is used to create relationships and connect people as well. No you will not become friends or pen pals with everyone you play chess with, but nor will that occur with every grocery store clerk you say hi to.

It is not rude to disable chat, but it is also not rude to begin a game with a casual, shallow formality. Ignoring such a greeting is also not rude, as on the internet you cannot judge from your opponents physical signals whether or not they want to speak. The only way to determine that is to speak first and show no surprise if there is no return.

Summary: It's not rude to start chat with "good luck". It's not rude to ignore it. It's not rude to never speak in a chat. It's not rude to say "thanks for the game". These are all parts of core human behavior and a world without them does not exist (unless we dive into some 9th dimensional stuff or something.... Let's not).

It sounds like you are contradicting yourself.

Explain?

You made an excellent case for why it IS rude not to reply to a greeting, even if it is NOT rude to simply not offer the greeting in the first place.  And then you concluded that neither one is rude.

I see what you mean. What I intended to get across is that there is a strong case for responding due to all the reasons I gave above, but given the anonymous nature of the internet, and the ability to use it individually, we can't get on anyone's case if they want to relax and quietly play chess without worrying about any sort of chat. For all we know, the people who disable chat are really wonderful people, they just don't feel like using chess.com in any social manner. I'm not saying Loomis fits into this category though, since we know his reasoning deals with a hatred for vapid formalities.

You're right though Vance, my point above is far less equal than I thought.... I think the defense I just gave may be quite shoddy.

I see it another way.  The distinction between in person and on line is not one of rude vs. not rude; it is rude either way to ignore someone who is greeting you.  No, the real distinction is between the consequences of being rude.  In person, it may cost you.  On line, it probably won't.  So the mindset seems to be "I can be rude to you and there is nothing you can do about it, and I care so little about you that I will not waste two seconds to brighten your day, or to prevent you from feeling like someone was rude to you."  But then it gets even better than that.  Now the jerks want to justify being jerks and saying that it is morally defensible to be a jerk.  News flash; it isn't.  And no matter how many "jerk enablers", whether jerks themselves or not, contribute to the problem by telling us to grow up and get thicker skin or whatever, the problem still remains.  Saying that the naked emperor has wonderful clothes is a statement about your (generic "you" -- not You you) need to conform so as to fit in, but it most certainly is not a statement about the fashion of the emperor.

Interesting. I agree with everything you said there. One thought though. In the instance that someone opens their chess game, sees a greeting and ignores it because they think it's worthless that is definitely rude. But I feel like a large number of people who fail to respond may have far more innocent reasons. Perhaps they really just don't notice the chat window. They open the game and move very quickly and move on to the next, or they don't speak English and see that you're from America and don't know what to say (yes, a hello is simple, but maybe they don't want to initiate an awkward conversation. It's not rude so much as timid).

So I think you're right, it is rude, but how frustrated are those of us being ignored allowed to get if we can't really guarantee that the person is actually being rude? It goes along with what you just said. In the same way that you can be rude and suffer no consequences, you can also not be rude but accidentally appear to be.

True, that is a good point.  And I confess that I myself have or rare -- very rare -- occasion not replied to a message because I didn't see it right away.  But I always made amends by replying later, when I did see it.  And by the way, I do not need to like you to reply to you; this is a basic common courtesy.  How much I do or do not like you may determine what I say when I do reply, but there are so many here -- and elsewhere -- who find it acceptable to simply not reply at all, even to follow-up messages (this compounds the problem).  And in all cases, the jerk in question speaks English just fine.  We love to find excuses, far-fetched reasons, but in 99% of the cases, the fault truly is not in our stars, but in ourselves.

Speaking of language barriers, here's a little conversation I had at the start of a game with someone who doesn't speak English.  I don't speak Czech, either, so I was using a couple online translators:

Cystem_Phailure: Hello! Greetings from the Upper Peninsula of Michigan in the U.S.

R: Neumím anglicky (obvious from context and "anglicky")

Cystem_Phailure: Ne mluvit Čech! : )  (I don't speak Czech!)

R: Tak budeme mlčet    (Then we will silence)

I got a kick out of the phrasing the translator gave the final sentence. 

--Cystem