Cheater caught! Please block him

Hi guys, this is my first post so please excuse me if i can't upload the PGN or something. Ok so i played this guy in this match and he was making moves instantly, he used just 6 mins i believe for this entire game, I had a rating of 1600 before the game but just because of this lost game i have slipped down to 1450 and it's really very annoying, I was already very low on time at around move 20 or something, mostly because I was becoming highly suspicious as this guy already had 29 minutes at that time

He got a better position out of the middlegame and made moves instantly, I am pretty sure he was using engines especially for the first 30 moves or so( he took just 2.5 mins for the first 40 moves) and then when he realized he was winning he started playing normally, but it was too late by then.

It's for you guys to decide.. can a guy rated 1340 play the first 40-45 moves in just over 2 minutes?

I'd guess he probably could. Looking at the game briefly, it looks as if your opponent had an ok advantage out of the opening that petered out to a drawn ending. So, I'd say your opponent plays too fast, and would probably have a better rating if only he/she'd slow down a bit.

I don't know if there's a way to know the times as well but if there is, then check out the times, I was surprised at how damn fast he was playing his moves, I made a horrible mistake in the endgame when I played Kf7 i think, but at that time he prob had 24 mins( yes,6 mins for 70 moves!) and that's the reason i blundered.

By the time we were in middlegame I understood that he must be using engines(not houdini quality engine, but still a good enough engine to let him win easily by playing in bullet mode), so I lost all hope, played bad moves like Bxd4 without any thought, as I knew he would win on time.

I guess I just really don't care if people cheat, and the same goes for my chess rating moving up or down.

A few things:

1. The fact that you dropped 150 rating points is because you have played so few games and your rating is not yet stabilized. It's very common for new players to start off with an inflated rating due to winning their first several games against lower-rated players, and then lose a lot of points when they play against higher-rated players (or just the same rating, but start losing and the statistics even out). Glancing at your profile, your highest win was against a ~1350 player so that is probably what happened.

2. Actually, the speed at which he was playing suggests he wasn't using an engine. A good engine requires some time to evaluate the position and deliver the best move (after the opening), so a cheater would have his engine set to take more than a few seconds per move. Rather, the speed suggests that your opponent is used to playing faster blitz/bullet time controls and is not good at managing his clock effectively. The aggressive, almost carelss attacking style suggests this as well since blitz players are, ah, not known for being defensive juggernauts.

3. Upsets are not uncommon, as the rating represents a statistical average rather than an absolute strength. Anyone who's been here a while will have had embarassing losses to a player 300 points below them, as well as epic upsets over players 300 points above them. In this game, both players made numerous simple errors which would be uncharacteristic of an engine, and White won simply by using zugzwang and opposition, classic and basic endgame principles.

4. Although it's possible, most cheaters wouldn't be hanging around the 1200-1800 range, but would have ratings over 2000. Most people who cheat so so to stroke their egos, not to keep their rating deliberately low with planned losses and then crush people for the lulz. When people do the latter, it's almost always in a tournament setting and Chess.com watches these *very* closely because it is a common and well-known problem.

tl;dr the other guy wasn't cheating

Are you out of your mind?? he made the best 40 moves by an engine in just 2 minutes, how can he play so fast?? what are the chances of a 1300 rated player to find all the 40 top suggested moves by engines in less than 2 mins??

Also, which useless engine are you using bro? top engines actually find moves instantly, notice the pattern in his play, he was using the SAME TIME FOR ALL HIS MOVES, 3 seconds or something for every move he made, I just can't believe that a 1300 rated guy can find top moves so accurately in just 2-3 seconds.

^^Best moves? I'm not an engine, but even I can see, for instance, that 16.Qxa8 is obviously winning (the queen looks trapped but any line I find has White gaining material), not to mention gaining a two-pawn advantage and then nearly allowing you to draw the endgame. Furthermore, if your opponent was using an engine how could you manage to keep the game so close? Even older or lower-tier engines can play at a 2000+ level without any trouble.

As far as "finding top moves so accurately", there's a few possibilities as mentioned above. In the opening, it's easy to bang out book lines. For the rest of the game, if your opponent is used to playing blitz time controls he would be used to and entirely capable of playing moves very quickly.

^This isn't engine-specific. The limitation on engine power is computational time, any engine worth its salt is going to be using all of the time available to it to obtain the best moves. 

Also, please note that the game you posted doesn't give any indication of the time taken by each player and move. Regardless, as stated before a blitz or bullet player is perfectly capable of making reasonable moves in short times, and in fact your opponent's play suggests this as he was playing aggressively even though he missed simple tactics.

no. you are a little off on some of these things. way off on some others.

it is possible to use an engine in the context of bullet or lightning. people have written computer programs that do in fact go that fast. I've watched them live. I've played bullet games against such programs myself. you can play houdini with 60 seconds on the clock can't you? should tell you something about how do-able it all actually is in reality.

what you stated here regarding the engine "needing time" to find moves is not accurate---yes it would need time to find the absolute best flawless winning variation, it would not need any time at all to find a half-way decent move that doesn't lose immediately. (of course smart cheaters won't be using houdini (dead give away. silly. don't want to get caught!) they'll use a lesser engine; which will still be sufficient given a time control of 60-120 seconds)

I've seen them on chess.com and icc. live in real time. I've watched people use computer programs/engines to play bullet or lightning games against titled players on these servers. I've seen them admit to using programs and engines when questioned about who they were or their remarkable strength.

doing this kind of thing on the internet, particularly in regards to chess, has a very long history. back in 2001-2002 some guy using a program pretended to be fischer and had GM Nigel Short believing him for a while until GM Short realized what computer programs and engines had become capable of doing---back at that time engines and programs being that strong and fast was a very new thing so at first he didn't suspect it and really thought he was playing fischer.

internet chess servers do their best to catch and ban such people, but it's impossible to prevent it all I suppose. especially nowadays with vastly improved and powerful technology.

of course there are various things/factors which can effectively and efficiently bridge the gap of a 300 point difference in rating or strength and account for some given win or loss--- especially if you're talking internet lightining or bullet. the longer the time control and the more serious the setting, the less significant and important are these factors. 

actually I know there are people who do in fact do this very specific (and strange, very strange behavior---god only knows their reasons) thing you detail here so nicely:  " hanging around the 1200-1800 range, but have ratings over 2000.  keep their rating deliberately low with planned losses and then crush people for the lulz. 

yeah the first 20 or so games are crucial to the rating actually. if you mess up within the first 20 (even dropping just 2-3 games) it typically makes it much more difficult to get the rating very high. (titled players start at 2000 btw).

Your points are valid. Allow me to clarify: I was addressing the specific situation at hand, where the game was played at a 30-minute time control against an opponent who supposedly played the game in six minutes of his own time. While an engine could be used to cheat at blitz, it strikes me as odd that a "cheater" would not allot his engine the full time control.

That said, if he was deliberately using a weaker engine to disguise his cheating that would theoretically only take a few seconds per move, but in my experience cheating with engines is almost always done to obtain a high rating, not to stomp players at a low rating (people do this of course, but most lose deliberately and win their "real" games by their own "intellect").

In short, I'm not saying that it is impossible, but rather that it seems unlikely given the "typical" motive and means employed by cheaters.