cheating on chess.com

If achmatova stays, I hope he refrains from calling people self-announced moral apostles just because those people want to follow the rules.

I'm sorry, but I have to chuckle at comments like this.

Alright Trigs, friendly wager then.

If, in a months time, this thread has contributed to some solution to the problem of online engine use, or Erik has chosen to implement one of it's brilliant ideas and re-structured chess.com to reflect it, I'll upgrade your account to platinum.

If, on the other hand, the problem of online cheating remains unchanged, and despite the powerful insights and grandioise suggestions participants of this thread have offered, chess.com remains the same, you can upgrade my account to platinum.

Did you even really read my post? You assume that the reason I said it was counter productive is because it's already been discussed. What I meant was all things considered at the end - it will have done more finger pointing and paranoid speculation harm to the real reason we play chess than it will have a net benefit (ie. absolutely none).

Look, it's "your" thread though, so I can understand how good it must feel to be the "owner" the the ultimate think tank on how to finally put an end to these evils! (Meanwhile, in Mubai...) so I can understand why you resist efforts to point out the truth of the matter, but come on, the only thing "completely absurd" here is that you imagine this time you'll stumble on the way to cure something that has been a problem with online chess since the very first electronic pawn was pushed.

So accept my wager. If in a month this thread has lead to anything somewhat productive, other than people commiserating with one another about just how much they disapprove and how cheaters cheat themselves and how maybe it would be better if we just X, if you can point to a post in this thread and say "Look! There, that post changed things!" then maybe you're right.

But if in a month, it's still just as vexing an issue as ever, and all that came of this was people waxing poetic about what an injustice they're being done (in an oblique "I somewhat suspect I may've, can't be sure" way) well, then you can tell me I was right.

Thanks.

i saw a person today who cheats with times, he's time was running out and i have about 1 min back. then he writes "hi" 3 times. and i lose game on time .

is it cheat or bug?

Rael: stop being sarcastic. I think that many of the posts here do try to make chess.com to be harsher towards cheaters. Otherwise I think many people would upgrade their account to an ICC account.

David: I'm just so curious: How could you have played so long in that pigstry called yahoo?

Erik: some of the features of chess.com are great, live chess is not one of them. If I would choose to pay for live chess and tactics trainer (which is what I'm mainly interested in), at this moment I would definitely choose other site.

I can't remember who it was, but i definately remember this one guy who had a really low rating, between 6 and 7 hundred, i played him and he let me beat him, then we did a rematch and i lost, and then i lost again, afterwords i noticed that his rating never changed even though mine plummetted, this was on live chess by the way.

well if he played 300 games, one win may only change his rating my 20-30, even against a much higher rated opponent.

It is actually an interesting question. Why did books and later databases get accepted for use in correspondence? My guess is the inability to enforce any rule against them, plus at some point the player will most likely be on his own for move selection. Up until that point though is there really any difference between the move coming to you from a book, a database, or a chess engine? They are all external sources of moves. The main difference I see is that a player can continue to seek the advice of an engine throughout the whole game.

Obviously, rules are meant to be broken.

I find it intersting that people want to change the rules here. Why not find a site that suits your needs? I find it somewhat alarming that we have a highly rated player who admits to cheating (while justifying it), deletes his account just to start a new one and continues to advocate cheating. I am sure he is a strong player without the use of computers, so I am not claiming this person isn't a good chess player. It seems like part of the purpose is to make this site like others that they frequent.

As for books, that is pretty tough to police. You can't expect someone not to read books and apply what they learn to the games they are playing here. Perhaps there are ways to cheat with books that I am unaware of.

All I ask is that nobody cheats when playing me.

 ok. i accept. and i already have won! yes! this thread has already changed my opinions on cheaters (please read the whole thread since it seems like you haven't). i'd like to see your upgrade to platinum very soon.

side note: i never said there would be a solution to cheating, i merely stated that discussing it is not counter-productive as you suggested. it is quite impossible for you to argue that no one's opinions or mindsets have changed in the reading/posting of this thread. hence, change did occur and it was not counter-productive. easiest bet ever? quite.

It's not about opinions or mindsets, Trigs. The fact of the matter is that the problem remains as it was when the thread began, and it will remain the same after the thread is over.

 then that is not "counter-productive" as you stated. debating a topic with no clear answer at length still results in changes of opinions which is the point of debating. there is nothing counter-productive happening simply because everyone just doesn't come to some unique understanding.

Edit: and i'll let you out of the wager since i knew it was a sure thing in the first place ;)

its more like nothing new has appeared in this timeless thread, therefore no motion----> no progress.  Your feet are moving but you are going nowhere (or in circles)

So guys......

What do you think should be done about cheating on chess.com???  Any ideas?

By all means, discuss it ad infinitum.

But if, as I'm imagining, it will lead to no "production" (ie. an actually implementable solution that solves the problem of "cheating on chess.com"), and instead leads to yet another whingefest (this is the counter part to the productivity thing, as better things could be done instead), then well, I dunno...

Look, nevermind, I only meant to pop my head in a few times and try to add some levity, then I let my incredulity get the best of me.

Nevermind and carry on, continue with the mind-changing dialogue, I'm sorry I've posted.

Just to try to get the thread back on track, I'd just like to point out that I think cheaters are really only cheating themselves.

Stay the course.  Proactively detect and remove cheaters while continuing to improve on the existing means of detection.

 uh...no...like i just said...(does anyone actually read the posts??)...opinions change. how people think about cheaters and cheating on chess.com changes. that IS the point. perhaps it is some people's goal to change the rules of the site involving cheating, but that is not the point of debating in general about any random topic. hence, there is progress and it is not counter-productive.

not to mention, perhaps you've been on chess.com forever, but many are new and there's no harm in bringing up old debatable topics to debate again.

well if its the same arguments and the same topics over and over again...

Insanity is defined as doing the exact same thing more than once and expecting different results...

Your last point is 100% valid, but I doubt many opinions are going to be changed and only the new users who read this.

(upon second thought maybe I am going insane trying to stop these insane people who are trying to change people's minds.... maybe we are all insane *sigh* what a rough definition of insane)

exactly :)

Olimar:

(upon second thought maybe I am going insane trying to stop these insane people who are trying to change people's minds.... maybe we are all insane *sigh* what a rough definition of insane)

Haha I feel that, man.

Gumpty & TheGrobe:

You're both absolutely right, which is why I'm glad Erik is doing what he's doing. As we have things right now is just right - behind the scenes the admins are working hard to ensure we have a cheating free environment - catching such ludicris examples as that RusudanGolienti fake. We have to have faith in their methods, and enjoy ourselves as it happens.

Trigs:

It's true that this is a discussion that all new members need to go through, like an initiation, or maybe just to get it out of their system. I know I did it once or twice, and I think it felt good to vent, once upon a time. Maybe a year from now it'll be your turn to be exasperated-at-endless-recursion-guy.

Can somebody explain why anyone would cheat?

Would you care at all, like yeah: I won 50 games in a row my Fritz 11 rocks!!!