chess clocks in tournaments

Nickle and dime the membership while making tournament chess less accessible.  I'm not sure that is the business model I would choose in this era of globilization. 

_Number_6 wrote:

M4g1c14n wrote:

_Number_6 wrote:

csalami wrote:

Checkmate and stalemate immediately ends the game. 

This is correct 

From the FIDE Laws of Chess  http://www.fide.com/fide/handbook.html?id=171&view=article:

I'm not sure what artices 3, 4.2, or 4.7 refer to... Could the USCF tournament rules be different? Or rules from any other country?

I posted the link to the FIDE Laws of Chess handbook, but Article 4 specifically refers to legal moves of chess.  If your queen hops two rows of pawns to deliver checkmate then the clock is still running.There are some articles in USCF rules that differ from FIDE but nothing major so far as I know when it comes to legal moves or time control.  Though they do publish the deviations from FIDE, USCF doesn't not appear to offer a free handbook online unlike my federation or FIDE so don't quote me on that. 

Thx for the link

I am looking at an outdated USCF (5th edition) rulebook, but I doubt that the rule has changed

13A1 "A player who checkmates the opponent is not obligated to then press (5H) or stop the clock (5I), as checkmate takes priority over a subsequent flag fall."

13A3.  After examining the evidence "...a director who is still unable to decide whether the claim of the flag fall occurred first shall deny the time claim and rule the checkmate valid."

woton wrote:

I am looking at an outdated USCF (5th edition) rulebook, but I doubt that the rule has changed

13A1 "A player who checkmates the opponent is not obligated to then press (5H) or stop the clock (5I), as checkmate takes priority over a subsequent flag fall."

13A3.  After examining the evidence "...a director who is still unable to decide whether the claim of the flag fall occurred first shall deny the time claim and rule the checkmate valid."

Thanks, exactly what I was looking for! Now if my opponents try to pull this nonsense on me I shall quote article 13A1!

Thanks for posting this woton.

I remember reading something that contradicts the above. Apparently, while USCF owns copyright to the book, Random House owns the right to publish it. Weird.

Looking inside the 5th edition on Amazon, you can see a prohibition against any reproduction of the rules without a written consent of the publisher, as if the copyright owner did not matter. The 6th edition does not have as strong wording as the 5th, but there is something along the same lines, regarding the electronic licensing.

It was once a common practice for organizations like the USCF to sell the publishing rights.  It brought in some extra money.  In hindsight, it may not have been such a good idea.

I am pretty sure FIDE arbiters are different in this area as they will call a flag fall if they are witnessing a game in progress ... 

From what I remember (FIDE rules), the rationale is that:

1. a checkmate stops the game, without any player having to claim anything.
2. when some player runs out of time, the opponent can claim a win on time (if there is sufficient material yada yada)

This means that you can play ten moves with no time left and checkmate the guy, if he discovers afterwards that he could have claimed, bad luck. Neither the arbiter or other spectators may point out that the flag has fallen.

I don't know what would happen if the time runs out while the checkmating move is been made if the opponent shouts immediately his claim. Anyone knows?

I see the rule states that a spectator cannot point out a dropped flag. What happens if that does occur? I can see many spectators not knowing the rule

Article 6.8

A flag is considered to have fallen when an arbiter observes the fact or when either player has made a valid claim to that effect.

I don't know what happens in this case concerning the game but the spectator can be ejected from the playing room/hall for this violation . 

Thanks LegoPirateSenior (and NM Reb) for correcting my misconception.  I see now that the rules specify that checkmate on the board wins on the spot whether or not the person delivering checkmate has any time left on the clock (assuming the opponent had not already pointed out a fallen flag).

To avoid suffering an embarassing "late checkmate" (after the checkmater's flag has fallen), a person must stop the clocks BEFORE the checkmate appears.

Fortunately my misconception (that a person must have time on the clock in order to checkmate) never affetced anyone since I never (in 20 years of OTB tournaments) experienced or witnessed this scenario.  But obviously it is best to thoroughly understand the rules if one plays OTB.

I think the vast majority of OTB tournament players (at least in the expert/A/B sections that I frequented) are very vigilent about calling the flag the split second it falls.  But I still recommend stopping the clocks immediately after delivering checkmate, because even though it is apparently unnecesarry, this minimizes the chance of unpleasant arguements with an opponent who doesn't fully understand the rules. 

The USCF has a rule titled "Unsolicited advice."  The penalty is at the discretion of the TD.  In this case, by telling the player that his flag had fallen, the spectator gave unsolicited advice to his opponent.

I stand corrected.