Chess engines

    I would like to know which engines would be considered as upper level. The postings in game analysis say that they have put the positions in one of their engines and found a certain line that is superior. Since they didn't find anything, but the engines did, which engines are considered superior??

the newest version of the very best chess engines that compete in international computer tournaments are usually not publicly available. even if they were, they are not meant to be run on a single PC anyway. they usually release their older (or limited strength) versions to the public to raise money and promote their brand.

someone can correct me if i'm outdated (lol), but the best such engines for personal use are probably still Fritz (commercial only) and Rybka (freeware or commercial). other popular ones are Crafty, Fruit, Junior, Rebel, and Shredder, among many others.

Rybka still seems to be favored by most strong GMs.  The free version seems severly hampered though.  Version 3 is supposed to be coming soon.  Fritz is probably most popular with amateurs as it comes with an interface which Rybka does not, you need to use Rybka with something like CA.

 If you are thinking of buying, best deal in my opinion is CA 9.1 Silver Package with both Shredder and Rybka and 3 million plus games in the database for $89 download, $99 for the disks.

 Allow me to correct a few mistakes:

 >> they are not meant to be run on a single PC anyway

Completely untrue. Those engines ARE meant to be run on any amount of CPUs INCLUDING single cpu systems. The only difference is that THEY, at the tournaments, run it in the tournament on a very strong machine (usually at least 8 cores, and 16 and 24 and more appear there too from time to time).

HOWEVER, the engine comes at a VERY high level even on a single core machine.

Each doubling of the number of CPUs causes an increase of a couple of dozen of ELO points (usually ~20-30ish, exceptions are small, and can go in any direction)

So, rest assured, those programs are meant to run on personal computers as well. 

Also, the comparison amongst the top engines on a given number of cores will remain about the same on different computers. (A long match between Rybka on 1 cpu vs. Fritz on 1 cpu will have similar results on a new computer, as the same match run where both engines run on an older home computer.).

>>they usually release their older (or limited strength) versions to the public to raise money and promote their brand. --- 

Not true. The home versions are never crippled or limited in any way, for any of the commercial engines. Home versions are the latest version that has been stabilized. What you see in tournaments is actually part of the development efforts of the NEXT version, sometimes a mid-way attempt. When the next version is complete, you get that one too.

>> someone can correct me if i'm outdated (lol), but the best such engines for personal use are probably still Fritz (commercial only) and Rybka (freeware or commercial). other popular ones are Crafty, Fruit, Junior, Rebel, and Shredder, among many others.

Sorry to correct this one too... But:

Fritz has been left behind as far as everything engine-related is concerned for the last few years, even for personal use. That despite Chessbase's attempts to make it seem like one of the best.

Even on the worst personal computer you can get, Fritz is really down the list, both from a perspective of pure playing strength, and as an analysis partner to analyze and go over your games with.

Rybka (latest version 2.3.2a) is by far, above and beyond the rest. Almost no contest.

Hiarcs 12 - I have to say, I was impressed. It's still no threat to Rybka, but it's also a magnificent engine with an entirely different style (yes, engines today have styles of play).

Naum 3 - very good. Also has the closest result among the different engines in their anti Rybka matches:) Don't have any special opinions on this one though other than pure level let... It's good though.

Shredder - also very strong and very nice.

ALL of the above engines are showing clear (and massive) superiority over Fritz 11, both in games AND as analysis partners / helpers.

(except Shredder, which is about the same strength as fritz 11, given the same computing power, but I think that as an analysis tool, Shredder is better: Most of the time the lines it gives are much more helpful during game analysis than the ones fritz gives.)

Zappa is another commercial engine that is better than fritz in many regards. However, for many reasons, both relating to the engine's style, AND the fact that it is the engine that supposedly gains the most out of extra CPUs (slightly more than other engines, supposedly), I would NOT recommend this one for personal home use.

As for the suggested Crafty: (Apologies to Hyatt, Crafty's programmer. It's a great project... this is simply a comment about the engine's level of play.) YUCK.

Crafty is sooo way down... It gives more bad suggestions than Fritz does, horrible evaluations in many types of complex positions. I can't trust it for analysis, and it plays much worse than any of the others.

(just to make things clearer, comparing the 32 bit, single processor versions of the strogest Crafty and the strongest Rybka, Rybka comes out close to 400 ELO points stronger).

As for freeware engines: Fruit and offshoots of the fruit project (GambitFruit, Toga) are mostly at the range of Fritz10-Fritz11 in terms of level of play.

They are all very strong and free.

The strongest Toga is already at about Fritz 11's strength, and I won't be surprised if there will be a stronger version. AND it's completely free!

As for the engine I think are best for personal use:

 If I had to choose only one engine: Rybka, no question.

If I had to choose 2: Rybka and Hiarcs (EVEN if Naum3 is slightly higher rated than Hiarcs on some rating lists). I get a nice set of complementing, clashing styles.

Oh, Masakari, in case pask does not return, I'll answer for him, CA = "Chess Assistant".

My apologies to Masakari and my thanks to Grolich, yes, CA is short for Chess Assistant which is the alternative chess database program to the perhaps better known, and more expensive, Chessbase.

 My above recommedation is based on price AND quality(the reasons I bought it), just seems like the best deal when you consider what you get for what you pay.  Grolich's long post does an excellent job of evaluating chess engines.  I would say Fritz is living off its reputation.  Crafty is the weakest engine I've used, in an engine and engine match against Rybka that I ran, it not only was trounced, it just didn't play very well at all.  

Grolich wrote: Crafty is sooo way down... It gives more bad suggestions than Fritz does, horrible evaluations in many types of complex positions. I can't trust it for analysis, and it plays much worse than any of the others.

 I strongly agree!  I just won't use it, and recommend no one else does either.  If you want a free engine, Grolich is again right, Fruit is much better than Crafty.  I have no experience with Hiracs, but have heard very good things about it and it would be the third engine I would use, if I wanted to spend more money, which I don't.

 Lastly, it is possible, perhaps even quite easy, to go engine crazy.  I see a number of chess authors are using two or three engines when preparing their books, which is probably a good thing.  Do most amateur players need three engines?  Doubtful.  I use Rybka and Shredder in SOME positions, but mostly just use Rybka.  Think about HOW you use a chess engine and go from there.  Running my own games is first, and I look for a significant jump in evaluation(about a half a pawn).  I also use them to analyse complex positions that I see from a GM game, or chess book that don't make sense to me, especially how to continue from a position that the author thinks is self evident, but my weak chess mind does not find evident at all. Also good for tactics problems/puzzles that don't seem to make sense, ie to help me find continuations that I can't see.

Hope this helps.  Have fun with your chess engine(s). 

judgeofthenight - when you know what engine you want, just google it and you'll eventually find a link.

Personally I use LarsenVB (I'm not that good yet so I need a weaker engine) - but I used to use SOS which came with my download of Arena 1.1

Also there are chess engines for download in the download section of Chess.com I believe, though how good these are I don't know

Is the Rybka avalilable for Mac Os?

Rybka for Mac..... no

Someone's gotten Rybka 2.2n2 (the free version) working on Mac OS. If you're tech-savvy you may find this thread interesting:

  http://rybkaforum.net/cgi-bin/rybkaforum/topic_show.pl?tid=2841

Is fritz 11 any good? 

Fritz 11 is rated 2961. Most would consider that a very good rating, although it's rated lower than Rybka (pay & free), Naum, Zappa, Toga II, and Hiarcs.

(Note: Fritz 11 is both an engine and a user-interface.)

free chess engines: superchessengine.com

For free GUI (Graphical UserInterface) see: playwitharena.com to use any engine.

See also http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chess_Engines_rating_lists and the related links at http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chess_engine#Chess_engine_rating_lists

This thread is useful.

Vrom> The most powerful chess engine to date is Hydra,

In 2006, in a freestyle tournament, the Hydra centaur lost four games against Rybka 2.1 quad centaurs. Larry Kaufman believes Rybka 3 octal would score 90% as White and 75% as Black if they ever agreed to face off in a match... but Hydra's retired from pure engine-engine play. I imagine to maintain some of its mystique.

Hydra's record against humans is certainly incredible.

Correct me if I am wrong, but doesn't Chess.com prohibit the use of engines?