Chess Ethics Quandary

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IshVarLan

*really regrets not playing Teary OTB*

IshVarLan

Ok, as an example against using aids during Matches

Ish just, and granted only temporarily, reached 1400 .. .. .. However, for Ish, it wouldn't feel like a True accomplishment, or a sign of better playing, if Aids were being used .. it would just feel like better Cheating

Granted, this is just Us, but you did ask :P

MathBandit
IshVarLan wrote:

Ok, as an example against using aids during Matches

Ish just, and granted only temporarily, reached 1400 .. .. .. However, for Ish, it wouldn't feel like a True accomplishment, or a sign of better playing, if Aids were being used .. it would just feel like better Cheating

Granted, this is just Us, but you did ask :P


Has Ish ever looked at any sort of chess book, artice, forum post, or other information at any point in time since March 17th?

dannyhume

So I could just pick my moves based on millions of games in databases and books already played over the centuries and simply parrot them out on this site and that "counts"?  

Seems pointless but I guess this isn't OTB real-time play. 

You can do this for live chess also (as long as you are fast enough to look up the games)?

MathBandit
Fleishkoph wrote:

This topic has been beaten to death over the years on chess.com forums. 

Problem is chess moves are not like car license plates and you can't trace the owner. 

Obviously then, chess opening moves found by computer are indistinguishable from those found by a human. It's still a dam good move, and most of the time the best move in that position. Your games make it into databases, chess magazines whatever and other people play the moves. Then other people after that. Once in a while a human or computer will find an improvement. Or they will re-discover an old move that had fallen out of favor. Then people start using that move instead. But you still never really know who first found that move. Human, or non-human and who cares? If you were to prohibit chess openings database use on chess.com you'd kill the sport, and pretty soon you'd kill chess960 too. Then what. Checkers? Naw checkers was solved ages ago.


As far as I know, the allowance of research material has never had anything to do with being impossible to prove, with the exception of engine use that is currently allowed in some correspondance circles.

oinquarki
dannyhume wrote:

You can do this for live chess also (as long as you are fast enough to look up the games)?


No.

CMGuess

The loop hole here is to look at your currect correspondense games, plug your moves into your favorite engine - play a couple of moves against them, then plug that game into your database, and wa-la - engine analyse of your current game without breaking rules - in fact you did exactly what was recommended. Carlsen doesn't stand a chance against you mastery of this chess variation!

Congrats, GM Teary! 

MathBandit
CMGuess wrote:

plug your moves into your favorite engine


BZZZZZT.

oinquarki
SensFan33 wrote:
CMGuess wrote:

plug your moves into your favorite engine


BZZZZZT.


This is the only thing I've read in my entire life that was both in caps and clever.

CMGuess

Why I don't even...

oinquarki
AnthonyCG wrote:

CLEVER.

There ya go.


Meh.

oinquarki
CMGuess wrote:

Why I don't even...


know how to finish a sentence?

CMGuess

...you say what?

squarewarrior

I always play to my strength so my openings will vary so I don't become too predictable

I observe what others will do and see if I can incorporate anything into my game

Skwerly

well, legal or not, i'm still not doing it.  the fun of chess is to study on your own time and then see how it pans out in a game.  i let neither GMs or engines or databases into my play, until AFTER the game, when i'm checking out what i did right/wrong and laughing at myself.  :P

IshVarLan
SensFan33 wrote:
IshVarLan wrote:

Ok, as an example against using aids during Matches

Ish just, and granted only temporarily, reached 1400 .. .. .. However, for Ish, it wouldn't feel like a True accomplishment, or a sign of better playing, if Aids were being used .. it would just feel like better Cheating

Granted, this is just Us, but you did ask :P


Has Ish ever looked at any sort of chess book, artice, forum post, or other information at any point in time since March 17th?


Most likey, however, staying on point, Never have an Ish done so, as part of an on going game, or when planning out a 'next move' .. Ish of course has no problems with 'study aids' as Teary could attest, however .. Just as one, unless it was an 'open book test', wouldn't have a text open telling them the answers DURING their test, Ish don't feel comfortable with the idea of using ANYthing other than our Meager brains to complete a Match/as part of a Match

If Ish wants to play with a Computer, Ish will challenge one, if Ish wants to see 2 computer programmes, or 2 'computer players' duke it out, fine .. but when trying to play .. One organic to Another, it should be just that, One Organic, to Another 

oinquarki
IshVarLan wrote: unless it was an 'open book test'


Exactly.

MathBandit
IshVarLan wrote:
SensFan33 wrote:
IshVarLan wrote:

Ok, as an example against using aids during Matches

Ish just, and granted only temporarily, reached 1400 .. .. .. However, for Ish, it wouldn't feel like a True accomplishment, or a sign of better playing, if Aids were being used .. it would just feel like better Cheating

Granted, this is just Us, but you did ask :P


Has Ish ever looked at any sort of chess book, artice, forum post, or other information at any point in time since March 17th?


Most likey, however, staying on point, Never have an Ish done so, as part of an on going game, or when planning out a 'next move' .. Ish of course has no problems with 'study aids' as Teary could attest, however .. Just as one, unless it was an 'open book test', wouldn't have a text open telling them the answers DURING their test, Ish don't feel comfortable with the idea of using ANYthing other than our Meager brains to complete a Match/as part of a Match

If Ish wants to play with a Computer, Ish will challenge one, if Ish wants to see 2 computer programmes, or 2 'computer players' duke it out, fine .. but when trying to play .. One organic to Another, it should be just that, One Organic, to Another 


Let's say I play the Ruy Lopez in every game as White. Let's further say that I am constantly in at least 1 White game. When exactly would you like me to read books and study GM games about the Ruy?

IshVarLan
SensFan33 wrote:
IshVarLan wrote:
SensFan33 wrote:
IshVarLan wrote:

Ok, as an example against using aids during Matches

Ish just, and granted only temporarily, reached 1400 .. .. .. However, for Ish, it wouldn't feel like a True accomplishment, or a sign of better playing, if Aids were being used .. it would just feel like better Cheating

Granted, this is just Us, but you did ask :P


Has Ish ever looked at any sort of chess book, artice, forum post, or other information at any point in time since March 17th?


Most likey, however, staying on point, Never have an Ish done so, as part of an on going game, or when planning out a 'next move' .. Ish of course has no problems with 'study aids' as Teary could attest, however .. Just as one, unless it was an 'open book test', wouldn't have a text open telling them the answers DURING their test, Ish don't feel comfortable with the idea of using ANYthing other than our Meager brains to complete a Match/as part of a Match

If Ish wants to play with a Computer, Ish will challenge one, if Ish wants to see 2 computer programmes, or 2 'computer players' duke it out, fine .. but when trying to play .. One organic to Another, it should be just that, One Organic, to Another 


Let's say I play the Ruy Lopez in every game as White. Let's further say that I am constantly in at least 1 White game. When exactly would you like me to read books and study GM games about the Ruy?


 

Again, nothing wrong with Studying, in general .. however, looking up, specifically, what your next move(s) should be, in a specific game you're actively playing, isn't, to Ish, and clearly also others, REALLY playing

Often during Ish Corp. Scrabble tourneys *which last days* players will do other activities during their breaks, including Read .. No problems there .. Now, if they are taking their 7 tiles with them, and looking in the dictionary for the best possible word to use .. THAT's CHEATING .. Can you see the difference??? 

MathBandit
IshVarLan wrote:
SensFan33 wrote:
IshVarLan wrote:
SensFan33 wrote:
IshVarLan wrote:

Ok, as an example against using aids during Matches

Ish just, and granted only temporarily, reached 1400 .. .. .. However, for Ish, it wouldn't feel like a True accomplishment, or a sign of better playing, if Aids were being used .. it would just feel like better Cheating

Granted, this is just Us, but you did ask :P


Has Ish ever looked at any sort of chess book, artice, forum post, or other information at any point in time since March 17th?


Most likey, however, staying on point, Never have an Ish done so, as part of an on going game, or when planning out a 'next move' .. Ish of course has no problems with 'study aids' as Teary could attest, however .. Just as one, unless it was an 'open book test', wouldn't have a text open telling them the answers DURING their test, Ish don't feel comfortable with the idea of using ANYthing other than our Meager brains to complete a Match/as part of a Match

If Ish wants to play with a Computer, Ish will challenge one, if Ish wants to see 2 computer programmes, or 2 'computer players' duke it out, fine .. but when trying to play .. One organic to Another, it should be just that, One Organic, to Another 


Let's say I play the Ruy Lopez in every game as White. Let's further say that I am constantly in at least 1 White game. When exactly would you like me to read books and study GM games about the Ruy?


 

Again, nothing wrong with Studying, in general .. however, looking up, specifically, what your next move(s) should be, in a specific game you're actively playing, isn't, to Ish, and clearly also others, REALLY playing

Often during Ish Corp. Scrabble tourneys *which last days* players will do other activities during their breaks, including Read .. No problems there .. Now, if they are taking their 7 tiles with them, and looking in the dictionary for the best possible word to use .. THAT's CHEATING .. Can you see the difference??? 

I agree, which is why you can't put the move into an engine. But then what happens if I'm just reading a book about the Ruy for my learning (and not for any one game in particular), and I happen to stumble upon a subtle trap that my opponent happened to just walk into in an ongoing game?