Chess for Oldtimers --- Good Idea !

well, nostalgia sure seems to be a funny thing. yes, johnny was good. so was dave. and, if you don't think anyone currently on late night has a sense of humor, perhaps you are stuck reminiscing, 'cause, let's face it. not every tonight show was a winner just because it was in the golden era of carson. 

Frankly, I couldn't stand Letterman's self-satisfied, faux cleverness.  Leno was okay at times and could actually be funny; probably his delivery.  The lot now fall flat, like borrowed jokes told over stale beer.

It goes without saying that not every Tonight Show with Johnny Carson was a winner, but generally the guests, both celebrity and particularly non-celebrity, were so much more interesting.  The real secret is you felt at home with Johnny, perhaps because he was one of those Midwestern Boys who never lost his down to earth charm in front of a camera.

quite an interesting view, bob (ironic that i do not wish to fight your opinion, but your name is fighting!). your midwestern boys perspective fits letterman, as he is from indiana (i am from illinois, and have traveled extensively and noticed the differences).

from my perspective, carson was the pioneer. i think dave and jay took it further-jaywalking, stupid pet tricks, etc. i never saw dave's delivery as self satisfied faux cleverness. what i saw was them taking what johnny did further-and adding to it. 

to say that johnny's guests were more interesting is a matter of perspective. there were fewer tv channels then and there was only the tonight show to hawk your product. 

i also think today's hosts do a fine job. the gift, as i see it, is during an interview. can you be funny on cue? responding to guests? i think kimmel and colbert are good at this as the others were.

We seem to be forgetting a fellow who had a fun talk-show quite years back. I used to enjoy the Merv Griffin show, he had a good sense of humor too. Plus there was also the Dick Cavett show as well.  

another i liked was tom snyder. 

Yes, badenwurtca, Merv Griffin was a very personable daytime (in Denver) host, and there was the nice but not very exciting Mike Douglas; these daytime slots went downhill beginning with the self-righteous Phil Donahue.

If you were looking for long format interviews you couldn't do better than Dick Cavett on commercial TV and David Susskind on public TV.

Two early Tonight Show hosts should also be mentioned as well, namely Steve Allen and Jack Paar, but I was too young to see them at work except in retrospectives.  One talk show I remember running on ABC opposite Carson's NBC slot for a couple of years in the late 1960s featured Joey Bishop with his sidekick Regis Philbin.  I used to watch it often, once I discovered Johnny I never went back.

That's the end of my trip down memory lane.

Carson was by far my favorite, though Leno had his moments. Letterman, except for the top 10 list, often left me feeling unsatisfied.

Interesting, Steve, I didn't know this about Jack Paar, I kid you not.

I should make clear I watched and appreciated the work of Steve Allen beginning with his variety show and its humorous Man on the street segment that helped boost the careers of Don Knotts, Tom Poston and Louis Nye in the late 1950s-early 1960s and ending with the intellectually entertaining PBS series in the late 1970s and early 1980s titled Meeting of Minds.

I also remember Mr. Allen as a guest panelist on What's My Line, a show my parents used to let me stay up an extra half-hour on Sunday to watch.  He was responsible for the question, "Is it bigger than a breadbox?"  However, I never got to watch Hi-Ho Steverino as host of the Tonight Show except in retrospectives.

Thanks a lot for the posts and for the info.

A funny little item that was seen on a bumper-sticker " We don't drink and drive, our kids always have the car. " 

Sorry to come in late on the very interesting late night talk show discussion.  I am old enough to remember watching Steve Allen and Jack Paar, and in daytime shows, Merv Griffen, Mike Douglas, and even Letterman, when he had a morning show that got canceled, before he went on to late night. I saw that morning show on the day Letterman had just gotten the cancellation news, and he couldn't even begin to disguise his distress.  He seemed so devastated and hopeless that I wrote him a little whimsical encouraging letter.  (Yes, that's right - a "fan letter!"  But it's the Only one I've ever written, so Don't give me a hard time!)  That transparency in Letterman's feeling state at any point in time was one of the things I liked most about him.

Jack Parr had "transparency" out the ying-yang!   -- so emotionally over the top at times, you could end up being intensely fascinated, sympathetic, and repelled  -- all at the same time!  I think Leno was his polar opposite.  I don't remember ever getting a sense of genuine emotion emanating from Leno in all his years on the Tonight Show.

Carson was guarded about personal stuff, but you could see him having genuine fun, especially with comedian guests.  And his monologue style was brilliant, not because of the material, but because of his reactions -- especially when jokes died.  He'd quickly let us in on his reaction, and then invite us to join him in his disappointment, and enjoy his recovery as he shrugged it off, usually by making fun himself.  Great role-modeling, and great connection with the audience.

Leno often had good material, but when a joke bombed, he tended to just keep plowing through, on to the next and then the next.  I did see him enjoying other comedians sometimes, but he could come across as competitive - even stepping on their punchlines.   He'd ask the right questions, but he didn't strike me as particularly interested in  -- well, anybody but himself.  Apologies if I'm being unfairly harsh here, and I may be, since  I didn't watch his show very often.

Astute observations, Mil, particularly on Johnny Carson and Jack Paar.

As you may have read, I didn't care for David Letterman, and more than ever when he let his politics show.  Jay Leno did indeed have good material and was an equal opportunity joker regarding political pomposity.  He was more in the American tradition of considering politics and politicians a necessary evil; otherwise, stay away kid ya bother me, go kiss another baby.  I realize he was nowhere close to being a Will Rogers or Mark Twain, but he was in that tradition.

I should make it clear that I watched late-night very infrequently after Johnny retired.  I found myself watching American Movie Classics, Bravo, Arts & Entertainment and The Learning Channel.  When they descended into philistinism, as almost all cable and satellite stations have, I turned to Turner Classic Movies.

Anyway, if you had covered the current crop I was waiting with my response that I'd rather watch J. Fred Muggs.  More articulate and far more entertaining!

Ah, J. Fred Muggs!!  Right up there with Green Acres' beloved pig "Arnold Ziffel." 
As well as the curmudgeonly "Mr. Ed," who should have been lauded, I think, more for his mordant wit than for the simple fact that he could speak.  Another gifted actor:  Frasier's dad's dog, the multi-talented "Eddie," who, instead of becoming bitter at finding himself cast in a non-speaking role, behaved like a professional, threw himself into the part, and revealed himself to be a remarkably talented mime!  Last, and in many ways least, going way back to the Dick Van Dyke Show, my sentimental favorite among these unique actors will always be, just for the name:  Buddy Sorrell's dog "Larry."

Well written, Mil, you got some chuckles out of me.  I have nothing to add.

Thanks for the new posts.

I found an interesting item from Clare Boothe Luce " HL Mencken told me once that he answers all his mail, pleasant and unpleasant, with just one line ( quote ): You may be right ( unquote ). That's the way I feel now. It is in the realm of possibility, just barely, that I could be the one who's wrong ".  

That sounds like the sarcastic Mencken, badenwurtca.

Thanks for the post Fightingbob. Btw please don't bother to type my entire usename, just call me baden or Ralph. 

I see you recently added Ralph to your profile, Ralph.  I always liked the name ever since watching Jackie Gleason and The Honeymooners when I was three years old, I kid you not.  Why that series stuck with me I don't know, but the same thing happened with The Twilight Zone when I was six.  I wonder what sticks with young boys nowadays.  Probably some video game.