It's not just about knowledge though; white playing first is the symmetry breaker. For example, I play an opening that is symmetrical for the first few moves, both players playing the move that takes the most space and develops the most pieces. But the symmetry is broken by white making a developing move that also has a threat... Black is forced to respond and loses a little time. There's no way around this, even though it's my favorite opening, I have to make that concession when I play as black. In terms of chess overall, if I had to bet I'd say it's drawn with perfect play. But it remains possible that there is a forcing line for white (or even black! White could begin the game in a hyper complex zugzwang...)
Chess is an ultimately drawn game: the facts
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Tribbled wrote:
It's not just about knowledge though; white playing first is the symmetry breaker. For example, I play an opening that is symmetrical for the first few moves, both players playing the move that takes the most space and develops the most pieces. But the symmetry is broken by white making a developing move that also has a threat... Black is forced to respond and loses a little time. There's no way around this, even though it's my favorite opening, I have to make that concession when I play as black. In terms of chess overall, if I had to bet I'd say it's drawn with perfect play. But it remains possible that there is a forcing line for white (or even black! White could begin the game in a hyper complex zugzwang...)
I wish i could explain this in some way, but my lexicon is too poor to do so. What is happening here is not a symmetry being broken, just misplaced, and this can be corrected. All moves will misplace symmetry, and black is just as capable of fixing this with the move allocated. And as for time, nothing will ever outlive or outsmart father time.
warsoaps wrote:
Tribbled wrote:
It's not just about knowledge though; white playing first is the symmetry breaker. For example, I play an opening that is symmetrical for the first few moves, both players playing the move that takes the most space and develops the most pieces. But the symmetry is broken by white making a developing move that also has a threat... Black is forced to respond and loses a little time. There's no way around this, even though it's my favorite opening, I have to make that concession when I play as black. In terms of chess overall, if I had to bet I'd say it's drawn with perfect play. But it remains possible that there is a forcing line for white (or even black! White could begin the game in a hyper complex zugzwang...)
I wish i could explain this in some way, but my lexicon is too poor to do so. What is happening here is not a symmetry being broken, just misplaced, and this can be corrected. All moves will misplace symmetry, and black is just as capable of fixing this with the move allocated. And as for time, nothing will ever outlive or outsmart father time.
This reads like someone who is trying to sound smart, but isn’t saying anything meaningful.
Matthew11235813 wrote:
warsoaps wrote:
Tribbled wrote:
It's not just about knowledge though; white playing first is the symmetry breaker. For example, I play an opening that is symmetrical for the first few moves, both players playing the move that takes the most space and develops the most pieces. But the symmetry is broken by white making a developing move that also has a threat... Black is forced to respond and loses a little time. There's no way around this, even though it's my favorite opening, I have to make that concession when I play as black. In terms of chess overall, if I had to bet I'd say it's drawn with perfect play. But it remains possible that there is a forcing line for white (or even black! White could begin the game in a hyper complex zugzwang...)
I wish i could explain this in some way, but my lexicon is too poor to do so. What is happening here is not a symmetry being broken, just misplaced, and this can be corrected. All moves will misplace symmetry, and black is just as capable of fixing this with the move allocated. And as for time, nothing will ever outlive or outsmart father time.
This reads like someone who is trying to sound smart, but isn’t saying anything meaningful.
Please enlighten me with your insight, which you have failed to provide.
What does Father Time have to do with chess, and how can symmetry be misplaced? I agree that chess is most likely a draw with perfect play, but to say that White being able to move first does not create any sort of imbalance is foolish.
White begins on the offensive, with Black responding. At some point, symmetry will be broken, and any attempt to regain the symmetry by Black will usually result in their ruin.
Matthew11235813 wrote:
What does Father Time have to do with chess, and how can symmetry be misplaced? I agree that chess is most likely a draw with perfect play, but to say that White being able to move first does not create any sort of imbalance is foolish.
I do not see any contradiction to my statement. Imbalances in symmetry are temporary and end with two kings.
Phrasing that idea as symmetry being misplaced and corrected was a little misleading, if unintentionally so. Saying the imbalances are “temporary” had me thinking that you meant the position would become symmetrical again within a handful of moves. By the way, a perfect game wouldn’t necessarily end with two kings. It could end with K vs K & B or N, or any one of the other drawn positions. We don’t know, and we likely never will.
Chess is like yin and yang. both sides are the same, and share elements with each other equally. White advantage is false; it is not an advantage, it only allows a player to establish a line they are familiar with that the opponent is not familiar with, something that does not disadvantage an all knowing player. As for computer analysis to check this, i am working on a way of efficiently checking chess games using logic. It is of no use to brute force chess games until all are recorded, but as all games must follow logic i feel as if the logic of a chess player was made be taken into account in carving out the vast majority of games used in these simulations it would make solving the question much more practically capable.