Chess will never be solved, here's why

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mpaetz
Optimissed wrote:

     Naturally, all my criticisms were correct. How do I know? By this time it's quite obvious that I'm so much better than any of you that you can't usually make any headway. I'm definitely boasting when I tell you that 15 years ago, people were telling me I was the best debater on Facebook in the English language. I'm also teasing you and taking the p---. But you're outclassed. Now watch all your efforts deflecting to attacking the hyperbole.

You simply try far too hard and make fools of yourselves when you do. And at other times, like claiming that all the points I was arguing against were correct. It's just childish, to alter your standpoints and claims, depending on who you're arguing with. Mental age of six stuff..

     Well, I guess this obviates the need of any further actual forums (discussions where different people put forth their opinions and argue about them). Now all we need do is consult the self-proclaimed (semi-?) divine oracle and receive the truth from the all-knowing authority.

     It's such constant horsebleep directed at us lesser beings that make some posters seem so comical that most others simply disregard them, even when they may have worthwhile points to make.

Elroch
playerafar wrote:

Option to 'lose a move' means black can't have a win?
Lol.  'somebody' wanting to think through arbitrary semantics instead of by logic?
If white played a knight out for first move and then put it back again - 
he'd be down by two moves.  
Its logically impossible to arbitrarily rule out the possibility that black has a forced win regardless of statistics indicating that its more often white playing for the win and black playing to not lose than the reverse. 
Illogical propositions get a lot of attention ?
Could be seen as 'use' rather than attention.

That is a funny claim!

Here is a game called Nim where each player (call then White and Black) alternately removes any number of matches from a single pile.  If Black can lose a move, so can White. wink.png

I I I

I I

I

Elroch
Optimissed wrote:
 

Clearly you missed it. Elroch posted to the effect that "tygxc is right on all points".

No, I made no such post. Not even slightly similar. To be frank, I think you are having a bit of a turn.

By this time it's quite obvious that I'm so much better than any of you that you can't usually make any headway. I'm definitely boasting when I tell you that 15 years ago, people were telling me I was the best debater on Facebook in the English language. I'm also teasing you and taking the p---. But you're outclassed. Now watch all your efforts deflecting to attacking the hyperbole.

The most common topic in your posts is your own pathological narcissism.

playerafar
mpaetz wrote:
Optimissed wrote:

     Naturally, all my criticisms were correct. How do I know? By this time it's quite obvious that I'm so much better than any of you that you can't usually make any headway. I'm definitely boasting when I tell you that 15 years ago, people were telling me I was the best debater on Facebook in the English language. I'm also teasing you and taking the p---. But you're outclassed. Now watch all your efforts deflecting to attacking the hyperbole.

You simply try far too hard and make fools of yourselves when you do. And at other times, like claiming that all the points I was arguing against were correct. It's just childish, to alter your standpoints and claims, depending on who you're arguing with. Mental age of six stuff..

     Well, I guess this obviates the need of any further actual forums (discussions where different people put forth their opinions and argue about them). Now all we need do is consult the self-proclaimed (semi-?) divine oracle and receive the truth from the all-knowing authority.

     It's such constant horsebleep directed at us lesser beings that make some posters seem so comical that most others simply disregard them, even when they may have worthwhile points to make.

But 'somebody's' posts still have uses.
Can be posted around (others don't have to make two or three consecutive) -  plus his posts are so narcissistic and also projecting - and the illogic so blatant - that reminders of the actual logic can then be posted as replies.  
That's if we're reading his posts.
His goal:  If he gets any acknowledgement at all that anybody read his posts - then he has 'succeeded' in his mind. 
Option:  skip most of it. 
Effect: 'soft guy' looks good by comparison.  But that's now well exposed also.   
Claim: 'cloud computers could solve chess in five years'.
Logic:  No they can't.  Soft guy has already acknowledged that its only up to seven pieces that tablebases have 'solved'.
He also is unwilling to post the progression of times taken to proceed from two pieces to seven pieces.
Huge crippling concessions. 

Those concessions support the claim of the forum topic that chess will never be solved. 
Which could be an abbreviation for:
"not during our lifetimes and not in the foreseeable future".  

DiogenesDue
Optimissed wrote:

Clearly you missed it. Elroch posted to the effect that "tygxc is right on all points". It was just his lazy way of imagining he'd pulled a stroke and "refuted" my arguments against tygxc without having to think, by imagining that such pronouncements can carry weight. Naturally, all my criticisms were correct. How do I know? By this time it's quite obvious that I'm so much better than any of you that you can't usually make any headway. I'm definitely boasting when I tell you that 15 years ago, people were telling me I was the best debater on Facebook in the English language. I'm also teasing you and taking the p---. But you're outclassed. Now watch all your efforts deflecting to attacking the hyperbole.

You simply try far too hard and make fools of yourselves when you do. And at other times, like claiming that all the points I was arguing against were correct. It's just childish, to alter your standpoints and claims, depending on who you're arguing with. Mental age of six stuff..

Quoting for posterity.

I'll probably answer this later, but I'm going to be scarce this weekend...

Gaming_WithOmer

"Know the enemy, know yourself, you need not fear the result of a hundred battles."

 

-Sun Tzu, The Art of War

 

Thats in chess means if you know the moves, and know your moves, you need no fear of a hundred moves

tygxc

To sum it up:

10^36 legal and sensible positions would take 10^27 seconds on 1 cloud engine of 10^9 nodes/s and at least 10^36 bits of storage draw/no draw to strongly solve chess with a 32-men table base: not feasible.

10^18 relevant positions to account for each pawn move and each capture rendering huge numbers of positions irrelevant and 10^17 positions for only tackling the necessary openings take 10^8 seconds on 1 cloud engine of 10^9 nodes/s to weakly solve chess.
GM Sveshnikov was right: 3 cloud engines can weakly solve chess in 5 years.
Exhausting all 10^17 relevant positions is proof.

playerafar

The constant spamming of the word 'fools' is possibly reportable ...
but 'hard guy' is looking for people to reply in kind - so he can turn the tables and report instead.
Its ironic.  He spams namecalling and then wonders why he gets muted.
What is it all about ?
Chess will never be solved for many millenia perhaps - but what about the Type 2 'internet personality' situations that go with chessplayers ?
Type 2:  Obsessions about titles and ratings especially the subject's own title/rating.  Prime example was Bobby Fischer - so obsessed with his title that he was scared to play Anatoly Karpov ...
but so many players manifest his obsession of needing 'to deflate the ego of the opponent' ...
plus with Type 2 there's so often obsessions with credentials and degrees especially the subject's own.
in hard guy's case - its also massive projections of problems that he simply cannot accept in himself.  That and type 2 describes most of his behaviour.
Can the discussion survive his behaviour?  
So far it has.

December_TwentyNine
playerafar wrote:
Elroch wrote:

If Carlsen plays the Petroff against Stockfish 14 he will almost certainly lose.

Couldn't find 'FIDE' ratings for chess engines and supercomputers.
Maybe there is no such thing.
Carlsen is in the high 2800's it seems.  Might break 2900 someday?

But some engines/computers have an Elo rating.
I saw more than one over 3400.
Elo is the same as FIDE ?  Somehow I doubt that ...  but its a long time since I researched the rating systems.
But if the strongest computer chess is 500 points stronger than Carlsen - then maybe they could even spot him material !
Maybe that can be looked up too !  

These engines and supercomputers are only as good as the people that make them. To say that Carlsen will "almost certainly lose" is a broad statement. How can you be so sure, anyway? If anyone knew whom Carlsen who was going to win or lose to, then you might as well challenge him yourself, thinking, "Yeah, no problem beating this guy."

December_TwentyNine
btickler wrote:
December_TwentyNine wrote:

Hi Btickler.

I've heard of this "Occam's razor" before. Are you familiar with Redpill78?

Yeah.  It's complete garbage.

Sorry, just signed onto the site just now and playing catch-up.

I've heard this same comment about him before, not saying that I believe what some of the things the guests on his show are talking about, but - "Really?"

Don't allow me to hijack this thread - many, if not all of his subject topics are punishable offenses here on chess.com.

joseephus4
Elroch
Optimissed wrote:
Elroch wrote:
Optimissed wrote:
 

Clearly you missed it. Elroch posted to the effect that "tygxc is right on all points".

No, I made no such post. Not even slightly similar. To be frank, I think you are having a bit of a turn.

By this time it's quite obvious that I'm so much better than any of you that you can't usually make any headway. I'm definitely boasting when I tell you that 15 years ago, people were telling me I was the best debater on Facebook in the English language. I'm also teasing you and taking the p---. But you're outclassed. Now watch all your efforts deflecting to attacking the hyperbole.

The most common topic in your posts is your own pathological narcissism.

Do you realise I could report that?

But I won't. Look, you have a PhD in statistics. You are an expert on stats and on some branches of physics but you claim to be an expert on everything and constantly make claims from authority, as do others, here on this thread.

No, I claim that there are experts on (almost) everything. I refer to those experts. That is how to be right as often as possible.

This is as clear as the fact that if you want an assessment of a chess position, referring to Carlsen's opinion is more reliable than referring to your own opinion. That is not to say that the latter is not laudable, it's just not as reliable. i.e. it is going to be wrong more often.

I've beaten you in arguments and debates many times

exhibit one example

but you're too conceited to realise it and on this thread, you have some others eating out of your hand. You're pretty bright and you deserve credit for that. The others are not as bright as you. They are not capable of seeing when you "lose" a debate and they tend to assume you always win them. That's often because you falsely claim that you have. I'm just saying that I know you by now. I know your strengths and I can see your weaknesses. Your assumption you're always right amplifies them and they can't be missed. There's no-one else who is as bright as you here

I would not claim that

and they have a hard time following either of us. Obviously I'm not counting myself as one of this group. This is a group of people who seem to need each others' support and confirmation. You as much as the others and naturally, you're going to find yourself or attract a group that fills those needs, because it's mutual. You only really ever debate where you feel safe.

I mean, this guy playerafar is a complete lunatic.

I could report you for that. And I can't see why you would say it.

All I'm doing is being here and disagreeing with posts that I think are wrong. I don't have to do it but I do do it partly because I'm interested in what is happening here. btickler isn't far behind him and if you're critical of overt egotism and obsessive self-adoration, look to yourselves. You're the ones who aren't normal & I can get along with anyone. If I choose to. I'm also agreeing with posts that are correct, even if they're by someone I don't care for. I gave up hoping you could be "objective" years ago. You can't. You're all three conceited and massive projectionists, in reality.

Let the epic movie commence!

All very similar to one-another. None of you like being seen for what you are and when it happens, you all three attack.

 

Elroch
Optimissed wrote:

Occam's Razor tends to be a lazy way of telling people to "think what I think".

Occam's Razor is a principle universally respected by scientists. It finds justification in Bayesian modelling of uncertainty - provably the only consistent way to quantifiy uncertain beliefs - which indicates why it is a good guide to what is likely to be true.

Elroch
December_TwentyNine wrote:

These engines and supercomputers are only as good as the people that make them. To say that Carlsen will "almost certainly lose" is a broad statement. How can you be so sure, anyway? If anyone knew whom Carlsen who was going to win or lose to, then you might as well challenge him yourself, thinking, "Yeah, no problem beating this guy."

This is fallacious reasoning. The ability to predict whether competitor A will beat competitor B is independent of the ability to play!  It's like if I know one runner runs 10 seconds for 100m and another runs 12 seconds, the second is not going to beat the first in a genuine race with both fit! Not once in a thousand times.

lfPatriotGames

I think to make an archery analogy Optimissed hit what is called a bullseye. 

Elroch

On what part of his anatomy had he placed it?

lfPatriotGames
Elroch wrote:

On what part of his anatomy had he placed it?

His assessment of you, based on your past actions and words, is not just a bullseye. It's the center of the bullseye. 

Elroch

Right, that was the other thing.

I stated that the content of a post was correct. You stated that I had said a person was always correct. These are so far from being the same thing that it shouldn't need correcting.

Still waiting for that example...

Elroch
Optimissed wrote:

You seem to be arguing over your own semantics. I did not tell you that you claimed the person was always right.

[snip]

"Elroch posted yesterday to tell us that ty is completely correct, apparently in all points, according to Elroch. "

Oops, you're busted.

 

 

Elroch
Optimissed wrote:

You seem to be arguing over your own semantics. I did not tell you that you claimed the person was always right.

[snip]

"Elroch posted yesterday to tell us that ty is completely correct, apparently in all points, according to Elroch. "

Oops, you're busted.

Let's see how others interpreted your statement:

playerafar wrote:

Elroch 'agrees' with 'soft guy' ?
On 'all points' ?
Lol.  Another fairy tale.