Chess will never be solved, here's why

Sort:
Avatar of DiogenesDue
Optimissed wrote:

Ooh we ARE getting noisy! Telling other people what they can do and can't do, while you yourself claim to be able to post what you want when and where you want. You've also made a very convincing argument that you're not completely crazy, somewhere, haven't you? Would you remind me of it?

This type of self-escalated posturing and preening does not make you look like you are actually holding your own, you know. It's vaguely obsequious (towards your intended and largely imaginary audience) and just paints you as insecure.

TL;DR

You're trying too hard.

Avatar of Optimissed
Elroch wrote:
Optimissed wrote:
tygxc wrote:

@11534

"the sheer number of possible positions" ++ There are 10^44 legal chess positions,
of which 10^37 without promotions to pieces not previously captured.
Of these 10^17 are relevant to weakly solving chess, as Schaeffer did for Checkers.

"calculate every potential outcome" ++ It is not necessary to calculate everything:
weakly solving chess only needs 1 black reply to all reasonable white moves.

I think that if you would pause and think for yourself for a moment, you would realise that in order to find that one black reply to each move by white, it is necessary to investigate very thoroughly quite a large number of black replies to every white move. I mentioned five candidate moves earlier (a couple of weeks since) but I also mentioned that to do the job properly, maybe nine candidate moves would suffice. That would be your "weak solution".

Here the quotation marks are appropriate, since the term is being used incorrectly by @tygxc, based it seems on his lack of understanding of the nature of the solution of checkers.

A weak solution strategy for white requires a response to EVERY legal move by black. None may be ignored, even if Steinitz didn't like them. That's the DEFINITION of a weak solution.

Then it's incorrect. However, my recollection tells me, from when I was studying these things, that the ridiculous terminology is defined as requiring a "strategy" (their word) for every legal move. That "strategy" could simply be "try harder not to lose this time, dear". Seems like we would need a definition for "strategy". While we're at it, can we please have a definition for "definition"? I feel that without it, we aren't going to make much progress. A definition for every word of that definition of definition might also come in handy.

OR we might simply try (hard for some) to stop speaking in gobbledegook because it looks as if someone's got something to hide and I know beyond doubt that there's been slippage in meaning regarding "weak" over the past 5 years. You accuse tygxc of changing tack and reversion but he isn't the only one, is he?

Avatar of DiogenesDue
Optimissed wrote:

You can continue to post what you wish and how you wish and you can continue to make a fool of yourself if you so wish, dear.

Are you just another member of the rank and file? Doesn't sound like it, does it? Continue to make a fool of yourself if you so desire by projecting your craziness onto others. Funny how you latched onto the "corrupt mods" line, wasn't it? Strange how you tell others, in bold blue ink, what they can and cannot do and how they are "just another member". Sounds like you don't see yourself as that, doesn't it?

No, it doesn't sound like that, not for any reasonable poster. It sounds like that when you read people's posts and contort them before digestion.

Avatar of Optimissed
DiogenesDue wrote:
Optimissed wrote:

You can continue to post what you wish and how you wish and you can continue to make a fool of yourself if you so wish, dear.

Are you just another member of the rank and file? Doesn't sound like it, does it? Continue to make a fool of yourself if you so desire by projecting your craziness onto others. Funny how you latched onto the "corrupt mods" line, wasn't it? Strange how you tell others, in bold blue ink, what they can and cannot do and how they are "just another member". Sounds like you don't see yourself as that, doesn't it?

No, it doesn't sound like that, not for any reasonable poster. It sounds like that when you read people's posts and contort them before digestion.

Well tell me this. After you start your arguments, why do you get more and more visibly upset the further they go on and then start to deliberately reverse realities, as you are doing in this post? If you can't handle the arguments you deliberately cause, emotionally, why do you start them constantly, if you are indeed perfectly sane? What am I missing? Is it some Kudos thing?

Avatar of Elroch
Optimissed wrote:
Elroch wrote:
Optimissed wrote:
tygxc wrote:

@11534

"the sheer number of possible positions" ++ There are 10^44 legal chess positions,
of which 10^37 without promotions to pieces not previously captured.
Of these 10^17 are relevant to weakly solving chess, as Schaeffer did for Checkers.

"calculate every potential outcome" ++ It is not necessary to calculate everything:
weakly solving chess only needs 1 black reply to all reasonable white moves.

I think that if you would pause and think for yourself for a moment, you would realise that in order to find that one black reply to each move by white, it is necessary to investigate very thoroughly quite a large number of black replies to every white move. I mentioned five candidate moves earlier (a couple of weeks since) but I also mentioned that to do the job properly, maybe nine candidate moves would suffice. That would be your "weak solution".

Here the quotation marks are appropriate, since the term is being used incorrectly by @tygxc, based it seems on his lack of understanding of the nature of the solution of checkers.

A weak solution strategy for white requires a response to EVERY legal move by black. None may be ignored, even if Steinitz didn't like them. That's the DEFINITION of a weak solution.

Then it's incorrect.

You seem not to understand the nature of a definition. A weak solution is what a weak solution is defined to be in the research community. If you don't like it, define something else (if you were able)!

It is crucial that the definition of a weak solution implies that a weak solution determines the value of a game (as do the other two classes of solution). Otherwise it would be no sort of solution at all. The definition achieves that.

However, my recollection tells me, from when I was studying these things, that the ridiculous terminology is defined as requiring a "strategy" (their word) for every legal move. That "strategy" could simply be "try harder not to lose this time, dear". Seems like we would need a definition for "strategy".

You need one. The entire research community has already had one for half a century or more. The solution to your need should be obvious...

While we're at it, can we please have a definition for "definition"? I feel that without it, we aren't going to make much progress. A definition for every word of that definition of definition might also come in handy.

Your narcissistic error is to forget for a second time that your ignorance of something does not imply everyone else's ignorance. Find an expert and they will give you what you need.

OR we might simply try (hard for some) to stop speaking in gobbledegook because it looks as if someone's got something to hide and I know beyond doubt that there's been slippage in meaning regarding "weak" over the past 5 years. You accuse tygxc of changing tack and reversion but he isn't the only one, is he?

Several people here have no problem understanding all of these things. That's because they have the knowledge of the subject that you don't, and which your ego obstructs you from acquiring

Avatar of Thee_Ghostess_Lola

when i say a bigger computer i mean one like the size a king khufuls tomb that browns out its surrounding city. 24/7. AND from those afar. electricity buzzing like a bazillion locusts in mating heat. lovers hair sticking straight up & their rings being arc welded just from holding hands. the iron in their blood coagulating like...

...nvm. im just being dum again. M is for mersenne.

Avatar of BigChessplayer665
Optimissed wrote:
DiogenesDue wrote:
Optimissed wrote:
MEGACHE3SE wrote:

elroch you made the mistake of using an analogy with abstract reasoning with tygxc. tygxc cant follow that.

Since Elroch nor many others here cannot follow me when I make an abstract argument, I don't think that can be used to criticise tygxc!

Don't mistake delusional meandering and occasional assertions with no substance with abstract arguments.

Ooh we ARE getting noisy! Telling other people what they can do and can't do, while you yourself claim to be able to post what you want when and where you want. i believe you need to look at your postsYou've also made a very convincing argument that you're not completely crazy, you call everyone here crazy or a troll your arguments don't have any logical points f you just accuse everyone of the same thing somewhere, haven't you?no he's just ignoring your insults and calling you delusional  Would you remind me of it?why does he need to ?

He's not telling you what you can't do

Also calling people illogical or unintelligent isn't that the same thing you do ? Except I don't really see dio doing that I think that's an elroch and you thing

Avatar of Optimissed
BigChessplayer665 wrote:
Optimissed wrote:
DiogenesDue wrote:
Optimissed wrote:
MEGACHE3SE wrote:

elroch you made the mistake of using an analogy with abstract reasoning with tygxc. tygxc cant follow that.

Since Elroch nor many others here cannot follow me when I make an abstract argument, I don't think that can be used to criticise tygxc!

Don't mistake delusional meandering and occasional assertions with no substance with abstract arguments.

Ooh we ARE getting noisy! Telling other people what they can do and can't do, while you yourself claim to be able to post what you want when and where you want. i believe you need to look at your postsYou've also made a very convincing argument that you're not completely crazy, you call everyone here crazy or a troll your arguments don't have any logical points f you just accuse everyone of the same thing somewhere, haven't you?no he's just ignoring your insults and calling you delusional  Would you remind me of it?why does he need to ?

He's not telling you what you can't do

Also calling people illogical or unintelligent isn't that the same thing you do ? Except I don't really see dio doing that I think that's an elroch and you think

I don't like telling people they're making a fool of themselves but your perceptions are in no way reliable and I'd rather have no conact with you. I don't want to tell you in greater detail what I think of you so give it a rest.

What you may or may not"see people doing" is unreliable. Also, your obvious friend Dio loses no time to tell people what he thinks of them and I'm simply responding to that. Apparently, he isn't very bright or he wouldn't do it. I actually think the same thing about quite a few people on this thread but surprisingly, I think the same about virtually no-one else on this site because most people act well. It means that the people with problems cluster together for mutual support. Can't be any other reason.

Avatar of BigChessplayer665
 Optimissed wrote:
BigChessplayer665 wrote:
Optimissed wrote:
DiogenesDue wrote:
Optimissed wrote:
MEGACHE3SE wrote:

elroch you made the mistake of using an analogy with abstract reasoning with tygxc. tygxc cant follow that.

Since Elroch nor many others here cannot follow me when I make an abstract argument, I don't think that can be used to criticise tygxc!

Don't mistake delusional meandering and occasional assertions with no substance with abstract arguments.

Ooh we ARE getting noisy! Telling other people what they can do and can't do, while you yourself claim to be able to post what you want when and where you want. i believe you need to look at your postsYou've also made a very convincing argument that you're not completely crazy, you call everyone here crazy or a troll your arguments don't have any logical points f you just accuse everyone of the same thing somewhere, haven't you?no he's just ignoring your insults and calling you delusional  Would you remind me of it?why does he need to ?

He's not telling you what you can't do

Also calling people illogical or unintelligent isn't that the same thing you do ? Except I don't really see dio doing that I think that's an elroch and you think

I don't like telling people they're making a fool of themselvesyou say that every other post if you don't like it just ignore them 😑 but your perceptions are in no way reliable and I'd rather have no conact with you. I don't want to tell you in greater detail what I think of you so give it a rest.yes they obviously troll you but then again you so insult them ekroch and dio blocking everyone is a bit silly though 

The only reason it gives the perception of txgcx not winning is cause you insult the smithereens out of everyone actually it seemed like we were making a tiny bit of progress when you weren't commenting instead of whining about other people's problems mostly because we could actually talk about the subject I also like how mega completely ignores you

Avatar of Optimissed
BigChessplayer665 wrote:
 Optimissed wrote:
BigChessplayer665 wrote:
Optimissed wrote:
DiogenesDue wrote:
Optimissed wrote:
MEGACHE3SE wrote:

elroch you made the mistake of using an analogy with abstract reasoning with tygxc. tygxc cant follow that.

Since Elroch nor many others here cannot follow me when I make an abstract argument, I don't think that can be used to criticise tygxc!

Don't mistake delusional meandering and occasional assertions with no substance with abstract arguments.

Ooh we ARE getting noisy! Telling other people what they can do and can't do, while you yourself claim to be able to post what you want when and where you want. i believe you need to look at your postsYou've also made a very convincing argument that you're not completely crazy, you call everyone here crazy or a troll your arguments don't have any logical points f you just accuse everyone of the same thing somewhere, haven't you?no he's just ignoring your insults and calling you delusional  Would you remind me of it?why does he need to ?

He's not telling you what you can't do

Also calling people illogical or unintelligent isn't that the same thing you do ? Except I don't really see dio doing that I think that's an elroch and you think

I don't like telling people they're making a fool of themselvesyou say that every other post if you don't like it just ignore them 😑 but your perceptions are in no way reliable and I'd rather have no conact with you. I don't want to tell you in greater detail what I think of you so give it a rest.yes they obviously troll you but then again you so insult them ekroch and dio blocking everyone is a bit silly though 

The only reason it gives the perception of txgcx not winning is cause you insult the smithereens out of everyone actually it seemed like wee were making a tiny bit of progress when you weren't commenting instead of whining about other people's problems 

OK you've proven who you are. I was initially wrong about who you are but I knew it was someone familiar. You're the fourth troll cartel member who comes and goes. Your bias, unpleasant nature and dishonesty is now clearly visible and nothing you write can be trusted. I never trusted you one bit and I was right. Goodbye.

Avatar of BigChessplayer665
Optimissed wrote:
BigChessplayer665 wrote:
 Optimissed wrote:
BigChessplayer665 wrote:
Optimissed wrote:
DiogenesDue wrote:
Optimissed wrote:
MEGACHE3SE wrote:

elroch you made the mistake of using an analogy with abstract reasoning with tygxc. tygxc cant follow that.

Since Elroch nor many others here cannot follow me when I make an abstract argument, I don't think that can be used to criticise tygxc!

Don't mistake delusional meandering and occasional assertions with no substance with abstract arguments.

Ooh we ARE getting noisy! Telling other people what they can do and can't do, while you yourself claim to be able to post what you want when and where you want. i believe you need to look at your postsYou've also made a very convincing argument that you're not completely crazy, you call everyone here crazy or a troll your arguments don't have any logical points f you just accuse everyone of the same thing somewhere, haven't you?no he's just ignoring your insults and calling you delusional  Would you remind me of it?why does he need to ?

He's not telling you what you can't do

Also calling people illogical or unintelligent isn't that the same thing you do ? Except I don't really see dio doing that I think that's an elroch and you think

I don't like telling people they're making a fool of themselvesyou say that every other post if you don't like it just ignore them 😑 but your perceptions are in no way reliable and I'd rather have no conact with you. I don't want to tell you in greater detail what I think of you so give it a rest.yes they obviously troll you but then again you so insult them ekroch and dio blocking everyone is a bit silly though 

The only reason it gives the perception of txgcx not winning is cause you insult the smithereens out of everyone actually it seemed like wee were making a tiny bit of progress when you weren't commenting instead of whining about other people's problems 

OK you've proven who you are.if you think you have proven something you are mistaken  I was initially wrong about who you are but I knew itwas someonefamiliar. You're the fourth cartel member who comes and goes .you mean I'm an alt ?🤦


Your bias and dishonesty is now visible and nothing you write can be trusted. Goodbye.

Avatar of Optimissed

OK you've proven who you are.if you think you have proven something you are mistaken I was initially wrong about who you are but I knew itwas someonefamiliar. You're the fourth cartel member who comes and goes .you mean I'm an alt ?>>>>>

No, I mean what I said. There was always a fourth member who came and went.

Avatar of Optimissed

But your blind support for another troll, along with your misrepresentation and obvious bias shows who you are. No-one else on this site plays these games except your cartel.

I can't even imagine why. Why is it so important to force the mistaken views of your resident expert on everything down people's throats and to demean tygxc whilst you do it? I know he's a bit daft and constantly mixes up good observations and bad but I would say you lot are completely obsessed with him. Why can't you just let him make his often excellent comments regarding chess improvement for beginners and his sometimes incorrect and sometimes correct ones here?

tygxc is no more consistently incorrect than Elroch. Elroch makes just as many glaring errors of judgement. Do you imagine you're saving the world by making fun of tygxc? Is that really where and how you all want to get your kicks?

Avatar of DiogenesDue
Optimissed wrote:
BigChessplayer665 wrote:
 Optimissed wrote:
BigChessplayer665 wrote:
Optimissed wrote:
DiogenesDue wrote:
Optimissed wrote:
MEGACHE3SE wrote:

elroch you made the mistake of using an analogy with abstract reasoning with tygxc. tygxc cant follow that.

Since Elroch nor many others here cannot follow me when I make an abstract argument, I don't think that can be used to criticise tygxc!

Don't mistake delusional meandering and occasional assertions with no substance with abstract arguments.

Ooh we ARE getting noisy! Telling other people what they can do and can't do, while you yourself claim to be able to post what you want when and where you want. i believe you need to look at your postsYou've also made a very convincing argument that you're not completely crazy, you call everyone here crazy or a troll your arguments don't have any logical points f you just accuse everyone of the same thing somewhere, haven't you?no he's just ignoring your insults and calling you delusional  Would you remind me of it?why does he need to ?

He's not telling you what you can't do

Also calling people illogical or unintelligent isn't that the same thing you do ? Except I don't really see dio doing that I think that's an elroch and you think

I don't like telling people they're making a fool of themselvesyou say that every other post if you don't like it just ignore them 😑 but your perceptions are in no way reliable and I'd rather have no conact with you. I don't want to tell you in greater detail what I think of you so give it a rest.yes they obviously troll you but then again you so insult them ekroch and dio blocking everyone is a bit silly though 

The only reason it gives the perception of txgcx not winning is cause you insult the smithereens out of everyone actually it seemed like wee were making a tiny bit of progress when you weren't commenting instead of whining about other people's problems 

OK you've proven who you are. I was initially wrong about who you are but I knew it was someone familiar. You're the fourth troll cartel member who comes and goes. Your bias, unpleasant nature and dishonesty is now clearly visible and nothing you write can be trusted. I never trusted you one bit and I was right. Goodbye.

Wow, I go to Safeway and while I am gone I am upgraded from a cabal member to a cartel!

If you really believe that 4 people are forming a cartel against you personally, then you're not very imaginative, because "Gang of Four" just jumps right out as a better nickname...

Avatar of Optimissed
DiogenesDue wrote:
 

Wow, I go to Safeway and while I am gone I am upgraded from a cabal member to a cartel!

If you really believe that 4 people are forming a cartel against you personally, then you're not very imaginative, because "Gang of Four" just jumps right out as a better nickname...

Of course it isn't against me personally because I know it's been going on irrespective of who it is. It's most likely insecurity makes you and a small number of people attack others. I hadn't visited this thread for a good few weeks and when i looked, a couple of weeks ago, there you all were bullying tygxc. It there was someone with mental impairment it seems you would bully them. I found it distasteful and i objected to it as any decent person would and Lo! and Behold! I was elevated to crackpot status and considered a fair target. A psychiatrist would have interesting things to say. And elroch gets a lot of things wrong, which is something you don't wish to accept.

Avatar of DiogenesDue
Optimissed wrote:

Well tell me this. After you start your arguments, why do you get more and more visibly upset the further they go on and then start to deliberately reverse realities, as you are doing in this post? If you can't handle the arguments you deliberately cause, emotionally, why do you start them constantly, if you are indeed perfectly sane? What am I missing? Is it some Kudos thing?

I don't get more upset. You just get more prone to believing people are upset when they are simply refuting your arguments. You post more junk, you get more refutations. It escalates for you, in your own mind, and *you* get more upset over time...thus the cartel/cabal effect. You cannot accept that lots of posters from all walks of life think your ideas are not brilliance on a stick. You're definitely a piece of work...

Avatar of Optimissed

I can tell when you're upset. Your inventions become more extreme and there's a kind of manic quality. There's no point you commenting on "brilliance". You're a good rhetorician and a passable computer expert. I'm not interested in what "posters from all walks of life" think unless I respect them or like them, which usually come together and which actually covers most people on this site.

Avatar of Optimissed

Some of the people I respect are most of the people who are on that thread combatting what they call "climate alarmists". Patriot Games especially and she sees in you what I see. Ghostess but also a number of people stand out. Most do not care to involve themselves with malicious people. And in general good people all over are what I like. I admire toleration and also the willingness to stand up for oneself. Not things you admire at all.

Avatar of DiogenesDue
Optimissed wrote:

Of course it isn't against me personally because I know it's been going on irrespective of who it is. It's most likely insecurity makes you and a small number of people attack others. I hadn't visited this thread for a good few weeks and when i looked, a couple of weeks ago, there you all were bullying tygxc. It there was someone with mental impairment it seems you would bully them. I found it distasteful and i objected to it as any decent person would and Lo! and Behold! I was elevated to crackpot status and considered a fair target. A psychiatrist would have interesting things to say. And elroch gets a lot of things wrong, which is something you don't wish to accept.

1. Your narrative paints Tygxc as mentally impaired, ergo, you want to defend him from "bullies"....that's highly insulting to Tygxc, much more so than any other posters here, I might add. This is the same crusader complex you had with Ponz. You really don't seem to like it when people who seem to be failing in faculties are being opposed/exposed somehow. Why is that?

2. You were not "elevated" to crackpot status. You've been pretty much the same since 2014. More lapses, but same worldview and outlooks.

3. A psychiatrist would have lots of interesting things to say, I agree. It's a shame your partner is not brave enough to give you a good look in the mirror. She could do a world of good...or do the world some good, might be a better way to put it.

Avatar of DiogenesDue
Optimissed wrote:

I can tell when you're upset. Your inventions become more extreme and there's a kind of manic quality. There's no point you commenting on "brilliance". You're a good rhetorician and a passable computer expert. I'm not interested in what "posters from all walks of life" think unless I respect them or like them, which usually come together and which actually covers most people on this site.

Obviously not. Go ahead and point out some of these "inventions", though. In fact, feel free to try to demonstrate how "upset" I am being in any post you like. Exposing your confirmation bias on the subject would be informative (for others) and amusing (for me and the whole cartel!).