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Chessmaster personalities

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EscherehcsE
drmrboss wrote:

People winning computers are super humans.

We now see two people who claimed to beat computers, you and Mr Lyudmil.

In any chance, can you guys  do showmath?

We would like to watch and learn and also would like to know who is better.

The OP did play an incredible game up to move 41, where he (Black) allowed a perpetual. Also note that Leko made a big blunder at move 38, and another lesser blunder on move 39. Analysis was made with Stockfish 9 at 5 seconds per move.

igotvishwanothing

I see you know a lot about chess engines and software. Maybe you could help me with an issue I am having with Lucas chess. Everytime I play a game against an engine it runs out of time. It takes five minutes for an engine to make 4 or five moves. It doesn't matter which engine or time control is being chosen, it's always the same so it is simply impossible to play a meaningful game. Is there something I could do with settings in order to change that!?

EscherehcsE
igotvishwanothing wrote:

I see you know a lot about chess engines and software. Maybe you could help me with an issue I am having with Lucas chess. Everytime I play a game against an engine it runs out of time. It takes five minutes for an engine to make 4 or five moves. It doesn't matter which engine or time control is being chosen, it's always the same so it is simply impossible to play a meaningful game. Is there something I could do with settings in order to change that!?

Yeah, I came across this problem before. After you select "Play against an engine of your choice", in the "Basic configuration" tab, the Depth is probably preset to a certain depth. (I don't remember how many plies.) You need to reset the Depth to the top setting of "--", then it should work.

Edit - Also leave the time setting at "0.0". (Of course, you'll set the time control for the game in the "Time" tab.)

igotvishwanothing

Thank you very much. Everything works perfect now.

EscherehcsE
EscherehcsE wrote:
DeirdreSkye wrote:
drmrboss wrote:
igotvishwanothing wrote:
Does anyone have any idea how strong these Chessmaster personalities actualy are, especially the Grandmasters!? I drew one game against Peter Leko, and I won one so one thing is for sure, they are not performing at grandmaster level. The only handicap in both games was I had 30 minutes vs Leko's 15, but I don't think that matters that much when playing against en engine, or maybe it does!?

Congratulations!! You are really exceptionally talented guy. 1:1,000,000 people can beat the Grandmasters. Dont argue with another 999,999 noobs here, they wont believe you. Find the nearest and highest rated world chess open tournaments. You should be the Candidate for 2020 world chess championship.

Good luck bro.

Chessmaster's grandmasters are not grandmasters , not even close.

I ran a couple of quickie tournaments: Chessmaster 10 vs. Leko, and Chessmaster 10 vs. Alekhine. Both the Leko and Alekhine personalities seem to be roughly -175 elo compared to the Chessmaster personality.

 

I modified the Chessmaster personality to not ponder (that is, not to think on opponent's time), and changed the hash size from 16 MB to 128 MB, to match the CCRL testing conditions. (I did not change the settings for Leko or Alekhine.) The CCRL 40/4 tests rate Chessmaster 10 at 2616 elo.

 

So, if you believe that the CCRL ratings are close to true, then the Leko and Alekhine personalities should be performing at a little over 2400 elo.

 

Caveats: Admittedly, the two tournaments were with a very small number of games, so the strengths of Leko and Alekhine are very rough approximations. Also, since all three of these personalities have zero randomness, there will be some identical duplicate games.

I ran some more games for the two tournaments (increased the games from 30 to 60 for each tournament). Alekhine played stronger, and Leko played weaker. Alekhine scored 22.5 out of 60, and Leko scored 10.5 out of 60. The new rough guesstimate is a little over 2500 elo for Alekhine, and maybe the mid 2300s for Leko.

I realize that this still isn't very many games. Regarding duplicate games, Leko had no duplicate games, while Alekhine had 3 duplicate games. (I had Alekhine play 3 extra games to replace the 3 dupes that I deleted from the tournament.)

Jonschesschannel

I would say take any rating Chessmaster gives to the personalities and subtract 200 rating points and that'll be around the true strength of the personalities.

EscherehcsE
Jonschesschannel wrote:

I would say take any rating Chessmaster gives to the personalities and subtract 200 rating points and that'll be around the true strength of the personalities.

Of the 25 or so personalities I've tested, most were well below the claimed strength. But it's a mixed bag; Some were 500 points below claimed rating, but a few were 200 points above claimed rating.

Jonschesschannel
EscherehcsE wrote:

Of the 25 or so personalities I've tested, most were well below the claimed strength. But it's a mixed bag; Some were 500 points below claimed rating, but a few were 200 points above claimed rating.


I wouldn't say 500 below, a 1700 on that program is way stronger than an actual 1200.  Personalities are hard to give a rating to in that program, because they'll do things like sacrifice a piece for no good reason, but once they do their "planned blunder" they'll play like Kasparov and they're end game will be immaculate.

Someone like "Max" in Chessmaster is rated 1500 but his strength level is 100% so he plays like damn near a master.  "Berry" is rated 1069 or so but she plays extremely strong.

igotvishwanothing

From my own personal experinece GM personalities from Lucas Chess are stronger than those of Chessmaster. I really like the way Kasparov plays. He kicks my ass on a regular basis.

EscherehcsE
igotvishwanothing wrote:

From my own personal experinece GM personalities from Lucas Chess are stronger than those of Chessmaster. I really like the way Kasparov plays. He kicks my ass on a regular basis.

It looks like the Kasparov personality is using a modified version of Gambit Fruit, with a nodes-per-second feature added. I haven't figured out where the programmer has hidden the personality settings. Playing against Gambit Fruit, I suspect it's seldom boring. :)

igotvishwanothing

He plays very agressively, that's for sure, so it could very well be Gambit Fruit like you pointed out.

tacticalthedisaster

I created a personality on CM 10th and i find it quite to my liking. I named it Nezhmetdinov and pushed its attacking parameter up to 50. I pushed its positional parameter up to 50 as well. Its control of center parameter is a whopping 150 and its mobility is 140.....low king safety.....etc. I wanted to to attack.....attack....attack and make FULL use of its evaluation function but from an attacking standpoint. This thing is AMAZING. Oh yeah i pushed its value of the Queen to over 10....so it RARELY gives up its Queen. Now before i did that......it was making rook sacrifices ALL the time.....it STILL does quite a bit.......it gives up 2-3 pawns or a FULL piece ALL THE TIME. And believe it or not.....it has beat MANY of the GM personalities on the program. JUST LIKE the REAL Nezhmetdinov........slightly weaker than the BEST GM"s but FULLY capable of tearing ANY of them apart in the right position. I just want to test it out or have a few ppl check out some of its games.......i will post a few if anyone responds to this post. I am interested in challenging OTHER ppl's creations happy.png Like a personality tournament seeing who's creation is best. 

EscherehcsE
tacticalthedisaster wrote:

I created a personality on CM 10th and i find it quite to my liking. I named it Nezhmetdinov and pushed its attacking parameter up to 50. I pushed its positional parameter up to 50 as well. Its control of center parameter is a whopping 150 and its mobility is 140.....low king safety.....etc. I wanted to to attack.....attack....attack and make FULL use of its evaluation function but from an attacking standpoint. This thing is AMAZING. Oh yeah i pushed its value of the Queen to over 10....so it RARELY gives up its Queen. Now before i did that......it was making rook sacrifices ALL the time.....it STILL does quite a bit.......it gives up 2-3 pawns or a FULL piece ALL THE TIME. And believe it or not.....it has beat MANY of the GM personalities on the program. JUST LIKE the REAL Nezhmetdinov........slightly weaker than the BEST GM"s but FULLY capable of tearing ANY of them apart in the right position. I just want to test it out or have a few ppl check out some of its games.......i will post a few if anyone responds to this post. I am interested in challenging OTHER ppl's creations  Like a personality tournament seeing who's creation is best. 

Hi tacticalthedisaster

Of course, I'm interested in your Nezhmetdinov personality, but I'm very busy with other things right now and don't really have time to play with CM personalities at the moment. Maybe you could post the exact changes you made so I can reproduce the personality later when I have some time to spare? (BTW, it appears to me that when changing the attacking parameter "Attacker/Defender", you need to go in the negative direction to increase the attacking spirit; I'm assuming that you already know this?)

 

I did notice that there's already a Nezhmetinov personality in the "AdditionalPersonalities.zip" file located in the Ubisoft forum. (That file also contains a "NezhmetinovR.obk" opening book.) Also, CM already contains a Tal personality. However, from looking at the settings, it appears that your personality is "aggression on steroids". happy.png

 

When I get more time, I'd like to export your Nezhmetinov personality, the additional Nezhmetinov personality from "AdditionalPersonalities.zip", the Tal personality, and a few GM personalities from CM and import them into the Arena GUI so I can run a proper tournament to compare their performance.

 

Here's the link to the Ubisoft forum where you can get the "AdditionalPersonalities.zip" file:

https://forums.ubi.com/showthread.php/397550-Chessmaster-10th-Edition-Downloads

 

tacticalthedisaster

@EscherehcsE (in response to your last post) THANKS for the reply....and i would LOVE to give you the specs for my personality so that you can run a proper tournament. I know it sounds petty but i just want credit for MY personal creation happy.png that's ALL i ask. I will check out the additional personalities and when u get a chance let me know how and i will send over the info for Nezmet or i suppose i can just screen shot all the info pages and post them for you so you can just make the same profile. Either way when u get some free time let me know i DEFINITELY interested and seeing a tournament with ALOT of ppls different creations. I have another profile call the "Iron Defender" this one sacs its Queen as i have dropped its Queen value to 7. Still tweeking that one tho.....i was trying to create a personality that sacs its Queen OFTEN but still gets some nice results. Iron Defender is doing well so far. it struggles to beat the GM's the...where as Nezmet OFTEN is down material only to leave his opponent utterly destroyed in the endgame via some wild tactical maneuver. You know the way they made those specs its all about the balance of it......i noticed i pick different openings depending on how aggressive you make it or defensive for instance my Nezmet NEVER plays the sicilian defense.....TOO slow for Nezzy and not attacking chances. Nezzy likes attacking variations EARLY....castle's to EITHER side and gets going RIGHT AWAY!!!! So fun to watch......u NEVER seen a computer play like this.....i'm telling you its like the REAL Nezhmetdinov. Now that i know at least ONE person is interested i will look for a GOOD game and post it.....I KNOW u'll like it......anyway we'll be in touch....take care

tacticalthedisaster


Just a small example of what it is capable of happy.png Vs the GM Fischer profile 1 min time controls 

[Event ""]
[Site ""]
[Date "2019.1.1"]
[Round ""]
[White "Nezhmetdinov"]
[Black "Fischer"]
[TimeControl "60"]
[Result "1-0"]
[ECO "oft "]

1.e4 c5 2.Nf3 d6 3.d4 cxd4 4.c3 Nf6 5.cxd4 Nxe4 6.Bd3 d5 7.O-O e6 8.Nc3 Nxc3 9.bxc3 Nc6 10.Bf4 Be7 11.Ne5 Qa5 12.Rb1 Nxe5
13.Bxe5 f6 14.Qh5+ Kd8 15.Bg3 Qxc3 16.Rfd1 Qxd4 17.Rbc1 Qb4 18.Bc7+ Kd7 19.Bf5 Bc5 20.Bxe6+ Kxc7 21.Qxd5 b6 22.Qxa8 Qa3 23.Rxc5+
bxc5 24.Qd5 Qa6 25.Qxc5+ Qc6 26.Qxa7+ Bb7 27.Rd7+ Qxd7 28.Qa5+ Kd6 29.Bxd7 Kxd7 30.Qb4 Kc6 31.Qe7 Ra8 32.Qxg7 Rxa2 33.Qxf6+ Kb5
34.Qf5+ Kc4 35.h3 Bd5 36.Qxh7 Ra8 37.Qe7 Rg8 38.Qc7+ Kd4 39.Qf4+ Kc5 40.g4 Re8 41.g5 Re7 42.Qf8 Kd6 43.g6 Kd7 44.h4 Re8 45.g7
Re1+ 46.Kh2 Rh1+ 47.Kg3 Be6 48.Qf4 Rb1 49.Qd4+ Ke7 50.Qa7+ Kf6 51.g8=N+ Bxg8 52.Qd4+ Kf7 53.Qd5+ Kg7 54.Qe5+ Kf8 55.Qf5+ Kg7
56.Qxb1 Bf7 57.Kg4 Kh6 58.Qb6+ Kg7 59.Kg5 Be6 60.Qxe6 Kh7 61.Qd7+ Kg8 62.Kg6 Kh8 63.Qh7# 1-0

Fischer is black......fireworks are over by move 35.....sorry for such a long game. But just look at the tactics......this thing is bananas.  

tacticalthedisaster

I just downloaded the "extra" personalities and i'd be VERY surprised if those personalities were created by the Ubisoft team with the help of Chess GM's. The NEzhmetdinov profile plays BORING chess on these new profiles. Bro that is NOT how Nezhmetdinov played Chess. That profile i just downloaded trades pawns for paws ZERO complex sacrifices or swashbuckling tactics. MY "nezzy" is pure joy to watch play. Look at that Fischer game.....it ALWAYS plays like that. Down material for a good portion of the game.....using the initiative like the REAL Nezhmetdinov and making bold sacrifices that seem CRAZY!!!! SO FUNNY i was scared to post my personality specs as i thought the one i downloaded would be better in some way and i'd look silly. NOT AT ALL.....posting them now so ican get credit. In all reality i think those extra downloads were just some guy who made them and posted them online......the variation in the personalities and the choices of openings make NO SENSE. Nezhmetdiniv is REAL life NEVER played the Sicilian. Not sure why but gho look thru the databases he DID NOT like the sicilian. This new one plays the sicilain Issac Boleslavsky was KNOWN for his mastery of teh sicilian. NO MENTION of that in the description of his profile. Gligoric beat the mess out of a young Bobby Fischer and was an EXPERT on the King's Indian Def......while i didnt read the profile i'm guessing its lacking in those specs.....anyway enoug ranting....posting Nezzy next

igiveupnow

We are waiting. :)

igiveupnow

There is an engine called Open Tal which has a very sacrificial style just like Tal had. Someone might find it interesting to try. It's a freeware.

tacticalthedisaster
  • attacker/defender -50
  • strength of play 100
  • material/ positional +50 (highly positional leaning towards position as opposed to material) 
  • randomness 50 (unsure how this affects its play but i wanted to to explore ALL lines) 
  • max depth search 99
  • selective search 10 
  • contempt for draw 0
  • Transpostion table 16MB.......YES to Pondering and Endgame databases.

Second Page......ALL specs are the SAME for it and its opponent. My thinking is that for THESE values......say its control of the center.....you u set the enemy control of center low.....then the engine will perceive GOOD control of the center by the enemy and not a big deal. So ALL my values in this section are EQUAL. If you set its value of pawn weaknesses high and equal it will munch EVERY pawn it can but it will also consider the value you gave it for "material" concerns when considering the value you gave it for pawn concerns. anywho..

  • own control of center 150
  • Own mobility 140
  • own king safety 80
  • own passed pawns 90
  • own pawn weaknesses 80

Lastly is material.......ALL the values here are normal values....1 for pawn.....3 for knight, etc.......the ONLY thing here different is i figure if its gonna sac pieces in search of attacking lines......it should TRY to keep its Queen.....my value for the Queen is 10.3......i was thinking to pushing it up to 10.5 but i KINDA like how he plays now. I cant really see what i wanna change......he loses often but plays aggressive and VERY tactical......LOTS of rook and pawn sacrifices.....castling to either side.....open lines for pieces most likely as a result of its high mobility and control of center values. oh yeah the Opening book......"Reference" i figure it should make use of ALL Gambits at its disposal and well as be familiar with any and all variations that might come about. So i gave it the reference book......and it plays ALOT of different openings but CLEARLY plays for open lines and center control.......which is what i told it to do happy.png THIS is the REAL Nezhmetdinov......i have brought him back for all of you to enjoy.........enjoy urselves guys.....happy new yr happy.png

tacticalthedisaster

Also experimenting with a sacrificial "defender" still tweeking him tho......he's looking good tho. He can beat Nezzy already happy.png But Nezzy usually beat him up pretty bad. But that's only cuz i make THAT profile give up its Queen all the time......its Queen value is only 7.....i want it to make exchange sacrifices and draw tactics like Petrosian. Still working on it.....almost done