database?...there should be a corresponce catergory as well as online

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frankyyy27

I now understand the reasons for using a database..but feel it should have its own subsection in online chess....its unfair to non users...1 why is the opening not considered worthy.2 it makes games boring..3by default my limited opening knowledge is at more of a disadvantage...4 players r reliant on it....5i find it unfair

frankyyy27

6...my phone does not have db capabilities....even so if I could use it it should'nt b usrd matter of fact for every game but just on occaisson

Lou-for-you

Are you still going on about this? How will you check it? When you have that answer, then continue about this. Until then go play chess in kenilworth, chester, liverpool, manchester,...

frankyyy27

7.endgame can also n learnt so is it fair for me to use outside literature for the end game as well

frankyyy27

lol...ok london manchester...i maybe make it fpr dinner....sorry thishas got my goat....seriouly its asking a new question...should chess.com make new catergories

Lou-for-you

Pffff...

frankyyy27

not worried about people cheating lou thats life on online chess...but the fact that database is condoned...this issue can be adressed

AnastasiaStyles

You can also play without using your Queen, if you wish, but it doesn't mean that your opponent is cheating by using his own.

AnastasiaStyles
frankyyy27 wrote:

7.endgame can also n learnt so is it fair for me to use outside literature for the end game as well

Yes, using books is just fine.

That said, endgame tablebases are forbidden, since they remove all element of actual play, given that they prescribe the exact correct moves to follow (unlike an opening database, which only tells you how previous moves have faired for previous players - often a game may be won, lost, or drawn for reasons other than that move).

But if you want to crack open Dvoretsky's Endgame Manual, or Wikipedia's article on the Bishop and Knight checkmate or the Lucena Position, that's all well and good. That's just reading, not using a computer to do your thinking for you.

 

 


What are the rules?

  • No chess programs or engines (e.g. Chessmaster, Fritz, Houdini, Stockfish, Chessbase with any active UCI engine, etc.) can be used to analyse positions in ongoing games.  
  • In turn-based chess, you may consult books or databases (including the Chess.com Explorer) for opening moves.  "Tablebases," which are specialized databases of particular endgame positions, may NOT be used.  
  • In Live Chess, no outside assistance OF ANY KIND is permitted.
  • Fixing game results by playing with multiple accounts or losing intentionally is also considered cheating

 

Source:  http://support.chess.com/Knowledgebase/Article/View/124/0/cheaters--cheating-what-you-need-to-know

Ziryab

Online chess on Chess.com is correpondence chess. The term "Online" was an unfortunate choice that invites confusion.

See http://www.chess.com/forum/view/community/debate-what-to-call-online-chess

Regarding the OP's five points:

1. You do not seem to understand the nature of opening research. At your skill level it does not matter anyway. General principles are more useful than databases until you get over 1800.

2. Boring is in the mind of the beholder. I offer an example game from my database use that was far from boring.

My first serious game (i.e. not online blitz) against the Blackmar-Diemer Gambit netted me a nice miniature. I employed the O'Kelly Defense without knowing its name, and quickly gained a superior position. 

http://chessskill.blogspot.com/2013/09/a-blackmar-diemer-gambit-miniature.html.

3. Use correspondence chess to improve your opening knowledge. Use the Game Explorer to find master games in openings that you are playing now. Play through these games. Your opening knowledge will grow rapidly. You will get better. 

Of course, using databases well is more work. Most folks object to databases because they are too lazy too learn how to use them. Don't be a lazy player.

4. Players too reliant on database will make bad moves as soon as the game leaves book. I refer you to point three for the antidote.

5. You'll need to explain this canard. Everyone on this site has access to the same Game Explorer. How can that be unfair?

Of course, some of us have much better personal databases, and expensive resources like Chess Informant and Chess Base. But, these added resources do not affect the game to any significant degree until the contestants are over 2000.

Ziryab
frankyyy27 wrote:

6...my phone does not have db capabilities....even so if I could use it it should'nt b usrd matter of fact for every game but just on occaisson

Mine does: https://itunes.apple.com/us/app/chess-openings-pro/id426508428?mt=8

kohai
frankyyy27 wrote:

I now understand the reasons for using a database..but feel it should have its own subsection in online chess....its unfair to non users...1 why is the opening not considered worthy.2 it makes games boring..3by default my limited opening knowledge is at more of a disadvantage...4 players r reliant on it....5i find it unfair

What exactly is it you find unfair? That there isn't a subsection or that basic members are limited on their access to database openings on here?

ConnorMacleod_151

I'd like to know who Jules is?

Undecided

frankyyy27

ok....no one interested in a straight game then with no outside interference...i accept defeat on this subject.....i just like a game of chess...

whirlwind2011

@OP: Instead of "Online Chess," I sometimes prefer the name "Research Chess," because that is the point of correspondence chess: to research the best moves, plans, and strategies. Databases help one to accomplish this.

If you want a "straight game ... with no outside interference," then Live Chess is just the thing for you! I hope you thoroughly enjoy your chess games on this wonderful site.

Ziryab
frankyyy27 wrote:

ok....no one interested in a straight game then with no outside interference...i accept defeat on this subject.....i just like a game of chess...

There's a group on this site called CoT OTB, which means Circle of Trust Over the board. They organize games among themselves in which databases may not be used. Ironically, almost every member of this group has never played OTB chess.

The main problem with Chess.com creating a separate rating and pool for those wanting database free correspondence play is that there is no way to monitor. Most players above 1800 and many below can go quite deep in most openings. Even when they have not memorized the lines, their intution guides them well.

I'll mention an example from actual OTB play. In one memorable game against a friend who excells at openings and loves transpositions, I was out of my knowledge base by move eight. Nonetheless, at move 18 we were still following games that could be found in databases and at move 20, we finally deviated from published analysis. My understanding of the positional elements in the Catalan guided me long after my memory ran out. I was rated about 1700 USCF at the time; my opponent was in the low 2000s.

Another game, more recent, I played the White side of a Spanish. My opponent played an offbeat line that put me on my own at move four. He then deviated from known theory at move nine.

Knowledge of basic opening principles guided me well beyond specific opening knowledge.

OTOH, today my friend with whom I played the Catalan years ago had me lost and on my own, and with a bad position by move 5. With a database, I would have been fine. The problem of enforcement is that no one knows which openings I can navigate without aids and which drive me to reference works.

Pre_VizsIa
Ziryab wrote:

5. You'll need to explain this canard. Everyone on this site has access to the same Game Explorer. How can that be unfair?

Hey Ziryab, unfortunately non-paying members can only go about two moves deep into an opening, which is hardly helpful.

SocialPanda
Timothy_P wrote:
Ziryab wrote:

5. You'll need to explain this canard. Everyone on this site has access to the same Game Explorer. How can that be unfair?

Hey Ziryab, unfortunately non-paying members can only go about two moves deep into an opening, which is hardly helpful.

There are also free database programs and free games collections if you want to use them.

frankyyy27

jadarite wrote:unfortunatley u and many others r missing my point... A high percentage of players like myself have no desire to use any aids but enj po y corresponsence chess..i merely asking is it not possible for cc to highlight our preference so we all know when a game starts

"Hey Ziryab, unfortunately non-paying members can only go about two moves deep into an opening, which is hardly helpful."

 

Then just play other non-members or pay up and become a VIP.  You can also find free game explorers and other programs.  Try Rybka 2.3.2a http://rybkachess.com/index.php?auswahl=Rybka+engine

 

If you get past that, then it's time to put some serious cash down to move up if you want.

 

Look at it this way too.  If you only play people who don't know the right moves, then you are wasting your time playing game after game against other people who would otherwise lose to better players.

 

By playing a paying member and getting the openings, you are in effect getting the features of the game explorer through them.  Maybe you will lose a few before you see the variations, but if you keep track of the moves then you will eventually have what they have for free.

So, paying members should be penalized for wasting my time at the online board if they don't consult their game explorer first

frankyyy27

Lol..as u can c my phoneand me struggle with computers..all im saying is I want to play correspondence chess without any aids.is it not possible fpr cc to flag up this preference...its unfair im lumped in and plauing against pepple using aids without knowing