do you also think it´s unfair that women get titled easier?

Sort:
mpaetz
DelightfulLiberty wrote:

My only remaining points of query and confusion, are:

a) why they still require lesser criteria in the West? Couldn't players from nations where mixed sex play is acceptable be required to meet the same requirements as men, whilst also having access to these female only titles? And wouldn't this better avoid potential backlash and fair claims to a bigotry of low expectations and thus better combat sexism within chess culture?

b) why are there not similar group-specific titles for other marginalised groups for similar reasons (say, based on ethnicity, ability, wealth, and sexuality)?

a) It would probably be too confusing to try to implement this. Would a WGM from Iran lose her title if she defected to Germany? Would a a strong female player from England suddenly become a WGM if she took a job in Saudi Arabia? Would women from the USA be ineligible to compete for the Women's World Championship but become eligible if they moved to Pakistan? Would they be stripped of their title if they returned home?

b) This would only apply if these groups had suffered exclusion/discrimination in the chess community rather than in society at large.

DelightfulLiberty

A) Titles earned should never been rescinded. All other 'yes'. It doesn't seem too complex. Practical issues aside, if they could made simple, it would be fairer as a system, yes?

B) Agreed. It has to have affected their freedom to play chess and/or they have to have faced toxicity within the chess community of their nation. I suspect this would apply to openly lgbtq+ players in many countries. Do you think so too?

SoupSailor
What if a white, male, straight Christian had abusive parents that made it harder for him to play? Should he get an easier title then? You can’t fix all the injustices in the world.
DelightfulLiberty
SoupSailor72 wrote:
What if a white, male, straight Christian had abusive parents that made it harder for him to play? Should he get an easier title then? You can’t fix all the injustices in the world.

True. So maybe it could just be that there's easier titles for 5 or so large groups who face difficulties in chess.

SoupSailor
Makes sense. Maybe for different races. But not LGBT, that wouldn’t work.
DelightfulLiberty
SoupSailor72 wrote:
Makes sense. Maybe for different races. But not LGBT, that wouldn’t work.

Why would you need multiple ones for different races, as opposed to just one for non-majority?

And why wouldn't one for lgbtq+ work?

Aeacb_7221
If they got the same title as men easier, it would be unfair, but since it specifies that it's a woman, it's not.
DelightfulLiberty
Aeacb_7221 wrote:
If they got the same title as men easier, it would be unfair, but since it specifies that it's a woman, it's not.

Good point. Its not the same title, it's a different title. Though they could have made the names of the titles a bit less similiar to avoid confusion.

SoupSailor
Why would you need multiple ones for different races, as opposed to just one for non-majority?

What’s non-majority? Every race is technically a minority.
SoupSailor
And why wouldn't one for lgbtq+ work?



Would be way too confusing. Anyone could just say “I’m gay” and get it.
DelightfulLiberty
SoupSailor72 wrote:
Why would you need multiple ones for different races, as opposed to just one for non-majority?
What’s non-majority? Every race is technically a minority.

Every ethnicity that meets the criteria of being x% fewer in number than the largest ethnic group, and which also faves toxicity or restrictions in playing chess either currently or within recent history.

DelightfulLiberty
SoupSailor72 wrote:
And why wouldn't one for lgbtq+ work?
Would be way too confusing. Anyone could just say “I’m gay” and get it.

That's fine. If someone wants to lie about being gay in order to be titled as 'gay grandmaster' I don't see a problem.

SoupSailor

Every ethnicity that meets the criteria of being x% fewer in number than the largest ethnic group, and which also faves toxicity or restrictions in playing chess either currently or within recent history.


That would be a lot of ethnicities, would it not?
DelightfulLiberty
SoupSailor72 wrote:
Every ethnicity that meets the criteria of being x% fewer in number than the largest ethnic group, and which also faves toxicity or restrictions in playing chess either currently or within recent history.
That would be a lot of ethnicities, would it not?

Probably all bar the majority one in any given nation.

SoupSailor
That's fine. If someone wants to lie about being gay in order to be titled as 'gay grandmaster' I don't see a problem.



Devalues the title. Plus, Magnus could identify as LGBT, and then sweep all the LGBT tournaments, taking all the money.
DelightfulLiberty

The title wouldn't be devalued. And Magnus can do that if he wishes. I don't see an issue.

Do women titles only permit cis women? And do they ask for some.sort of verification to check gender?

SoupSailor
Probably all bar the majority one in any given nation.



So you would have thousands of titles for every specific race? Plus, someone could switch nations from one that they are majority in to one they are not, just to get the title.
DelightfulLiberty
SoupSailor72 wrote:
Probably all bar the majority one in any given nation.
So you would have thousands of titles for every specific race? Plus, someone could switch nations from one that they are majority in to one they are not, just to get the title.

No. Just one for non-majority race. And if someone switches citizenship just to get the title, that's fine.

winters08

idk man

Laskersnephew

This is a hilarious thread, starting out with the totally inaccurate title. Women and men have to meet exactly criteria to be awarded the FM, IM and GM titles. No exceptions. How can the fact that there are also WFM, WIM, and WGM titles that are available to women possible be unfair to anyone?