No. Even a 1440 should be able to win up a knight.
Do you think somebody rated 1595 USCF could
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No other opinions?
woodshover wrote:
Do you think somebody rated 1595 USCF could spot somebody rated 1440 a knight?
the 1595 player should lose the overwhelming number of games.
Spotting someone material in the beginning of a game is (usually) much different than dropping material in the middle of a game.
From wikipedia:
Grandmaster Larry Kaufman wrote the following about the Elo rating equivalence of giving knight odds:[64]
[T]he Elo equivalent of a given handicap degrades as you go down the scale. A knight seems to be worth around a thousand points when the "weak" player is around IM level, but it drops as you go down. For example, I'm about 2400 and I've played tons of knight odds games with students, and I would put the break-even point (for untimed but reasonably quick games) with me at around 1800, so maybe a 600 value at this level. An 1800 can probably give knight odds to a 1400, a 1400 to an 1100, an 1100 to a 900, etc. This is pretty obviously the way it must work, because the weaker the players are, the more likely the weaker one is to blunder a piece or more. When you get down to the level of the average 8 year old player, knight odds is just a slight edge, maybe 50 points or so.
Kaufman has written that Kasparov could give pawn and move odds to a low grandmaster (2500 FIDE rating) and be slightly favored, and would have even chances at knight odds against a player with a FIDE rating of 2115.
So according to Kauffman, a 1400 given knight odds would experience results near that of an 1800 player.
Interesting.
Jul 1, 2011
0
#9
Probably not ... but if you wanted to make it a decent handicap fight, throw in draw odds (the guy with the extra Knight wins if it is a draw!)
RetGuvvie98 wrote:
keep in mind that GM Kauffman got the GM title by winning the senior Open, not by earning the title through the typical "Norms" method.
While he is a strong player, (obviously a lot stronger than I am), one of my students beat him when the kid was only an 1800 WITHOUT any odds in a rated OTB event a few years ago, when Kauffman was only an IM.
[edit: the kid was only 18 1/2 years old at the time, but had just finished studying through Mueller and Lamprecht's book on Chess Endings and attributed his victory to my stimulating him to study it thoroughly).
I believe his profession - statistical analysis - and his chess work - qualifies him to provide the 'odds' ratings - he stated in that article. However, it would be interesting to find out if other IMs (2500-2600) are able to duplicate his results with students rated above/below 1800 - on knight-odds games ---- or if their results are different.
regards,
But Kauffman was, at least at one time, legitimately an IM strength player. It doesn't mean a lot to say at one time an 1800 rated player beat him. We're all human, and sometimes people are underrated :)
I did have the same thought though, that depending on a player's style this estimate may go up or down.
I think Judit Polgar (or maybe it was Susan?) lost to a class B player in a tourney game one time. Missed a mating combination or something... I saw it published, someone go look for it :)
RetGuvvie98 wrote:
woodshover, also note: Kaufman's figures are for an 'average' of games, not for any particular ONE GAME event. on any one game, even a GM can err and lose - particularly with strong playing 1700s, who play nearly flawlessly for that one game.
I re-read your question, it was about 'one game' - on any one game, anything can happen - I could refer you to a chess video where a 9 year old Indian boy beats a GM in a rated tournament game - the boy had the black pieces.
upsets happen, so yes, the lower rated could beat the higher rated on a "one game event".
I know anything could happen in any one game. I wasn't talking about upsets. I was just wondering if the 1595 player could still feel confident he was probably going to win when he gave the knight odds to Mr. 1440.
Hello.
May 13, 2015
0
#17
Hello. Why are you starting this thread all over again?
Goodbye.
A 1595 player should not feel confident he was going to win if giving knight odds to Mr. 1440.
Mr. 1440 should win most of the time.
Robert0905 wrote:
Hello. Why are you starting this thread all over again?
Goodbye.
Goodbye.
Spot somebody rated 1440 a knight?