Do you think that triangulation is useful?

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Avatar of kindaspongey
llamonade wrote:
ghost_of_pushwood wrote:

Use it all the time.  How'd you ever get to 1870 without it?

He's 1200 so...

Isn't dk-Ltd's daily rating 1870?

Avatar of aspiringpsychiatrist
Ziryab wrote:
08-abchess2006-64 wrote:
ghost_of_pushwood wrote:

Use it all the time.  How'd you ever get to 1870 without it?

There are many 1900s that get to their level without using triangulation.

 

Or even how to checkmate with two queens. It's quite embarrassing to lose to some of these fools.

Yes! Some don't even know the Sicillian (as White).

 

Avatar of llamonade
kindaspongey wrote:
llamonade wrote:
ghost_of_pushwood wrote:

Use it all the time.  How'd you ever get to 1870 without it?

He's 1200 so...

Isn't dk-Ltd's daily rating 1870?

Actually I misread it tongue.png

I thought it was 2 wins and 1 loss, but it's 21 wins and 1 loss, so I guess that's a "real" rating.

But still, when I read GOP puzzled over how he's 1800 and doesn't know triangulation I thought "must be 1800 daily"

I had friend who bounced between 1300-1400 OTB USCF and maintained an 1800 daily rating here. I think blitz ratings are more accurate, so that's why I call the OP 1200.

Avatar of Nwap111

There is simple triangulation, which people here are describing, and a more complex version which you are describing which happens in blocked pawn structures, requires retro-grade analysis(which you seem to describe), and could not be done in blitz. 

Avatar of llamonade
Nwap111 wrote:

There is simple triangulation, which people here are describing, and a more complex version which you are describing which happens in blocked pawn structures, requires retro-grade analysis(which you seem to describe), and could not be done in blitz. 

Depends on the time control and the player.

Positions that are devilishly difficult, and require tons of calculation, sometimes become extremely simple as a player gets more experience with them and becomes a stronger player overall. I wouldn't be even a little surprised to see a GM pull it off in a blitz game.

Avatar of Nwap111

Maybe at Karpov's level.  The work still has to be done .  We are all human, even the grandmasters.  Some grandmasters might be able to do it in blitz some not. .  The comments I have read from their books show a lot of time thinking, putting into the correct order.  It takes work.  So I agree with you someone might be able to do it in blitz.

Avatar of llamonade

And I agree with you that it depends on the position. Some would be easy, some definitely not!

Avatar of Nwap111

Simple triangulation can be learned in one session; more complex triangulation(involving blocked pawn structures) , has to be done with a lot of analysis and understanding.  The retro-grade analysis would take many moves and variations, easier to explain than to do.

Avatar of Ziryab
It is obviously a satirical name and a troll account, because the poster with the genetic claim has taken the cake for the two stupidest posts this weekend.

In another thread, he lauded the “backyard professor”.
Avatar of dk-Ltd
llamonade wrote:
kindaspongey wrote:
llamonade wrote:
ghost_of_pushwood wrote:

Use it all the time.  How'd you ever get to 1870 without it?

He's 1200 so...

Isn't dk-Ltd's daily rating 1870?

Actually I misread it

I thought it was 2 wins and 1 loss, but it's 21 wins and 1 loss, so I guess that's a "real" rating.

But still, when I read GOP puzzled over how he's 1800 and doesn't know triangulation I thought "must be 1800 daily"

I had friend who bounced between 1300-1400 OTB USCF and maintained an 1800 daily rating here. I think blitz ratings are more accurate, so that's why I call the OP 1200.

Yea, I am not 1870, but neither 1200. I am somewhere between those. I play slow, but I am also exceptionally good at solving problems in general. Started by playing daily, but seemed too easy for my style (totally inside my comfort zone and it worked perfectly along with my strengths) . Then moved to blitz to face my weaknesses (playing slow) and there, went to as low as 717. Worked my way up to 1200, by improving my time management and tactics. Now, I am studying endagames and keep improving on my tactics. When I somewhat conquer my nemesis (blitz), I will probably move back to slower time limits. I am doing it the opposite way, but everybody is different.

Actually, what you said (along with a post from kindaspongey) helped me find a new level of understanding for such positions, exceeding once more my expectations. What you said about opposition and zugzwang is totally true and simplifies such positions a lot and if that wasn't enough, I realized that the calculations are very easy and pretty standard. Enemy king moves forward (you get the opposition), moves left-left or right-right (then he gets too far and you invade and promote), moves left-right or right-left (you complete the triangulation and get the opposition) and in the rare cases that does something else, you just invade, using some kind of opposition. Have cut my times in solving them drastically.

 

Avatar of Nwap111

Like a lot of chess skills, anyone can learn simple opposition.  As someone mentioned, a lot of chess is skill and training.  Certain endgame positions are a dead win against  even the World Champion, as are certain dead draws.  All this can be taught and practiced.  Yes, lower rated players can learn, for example, the Philidor position in  rook and pawn endings  and draw or the so-called Lucena position and win against the best players.   But chess has so many more skills to learn.  

Avatar of dk-Ltd
Fixedthx wrote:

Waltz music is in triangulation time 3/4 treble beats

I suggest listening to waltzes.

that was fast and funny grin.png. It seems as simple as this now though

Avatar of kindaspongey

I don't remember ever encountering a triangulation position like the one above, but, if I ever do, I think that I have a much better chance of thinking of a move like 2...Ke5 over the board because I have read about triangulation.

Avatar of Ziryab
I watched two B Class players at the Spokane Chess Club play a position that would not have ended as a draw if the player with two pawns understood triangulation.
Avatar of Nwap111

Many won ending s are lost or drawn because of lack of endgame knowledge or technique.

Avatar of Chessflyfisher

Yes.

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