Is this Move against Najdorf : Poisoned Pawn correct?

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atchess91

Hi All!

I just want to know what you guys think about this Unexpected and Unusual move in The Poisoned Pawn Najdor

 

I went on and really got excited to know about this opening when i saw this

null

 

Even Top Players Play This! 

 

PS:My fide rating is 1870.

 

Check this opening and comment what you think about this move below!

 

 

notmtwain

I think that reading tiny print on screen shots is extremely challenging and most people won't bother to adjust their zoom level in order to read what you posted.

You should post questions like this using the tools they provided here for posting games.

 Qd3?! You're all excited about 8 Qd3?

My understanding is that if you want to play the Najdorf, you had better be prepared to go about about 20 moves in your book knowledge.  

Yigor

This poisoned pawn variation is close to be an inaccuracy:

 

 

I don't think that white has enough compensation for the sacrificed pawn. lessons.pngexplorer.png

atchess91
notmtwain wrote:

I think that reading tiny print on screen shots is extremely challenging and most people won't bother to adjust their zoom level in order to read what you posted.

You should post questions like this using the tools they provided here for posting games.

 Qd3?! You're all excited about 8 Qd3?

My understanding is that if you want to play the Najdorf, you had better be prepared to go about about 20 moves in your book knowledge.  

I did upload the screenshot because i am lazy.

I play najdorf from both the side and the thing is the more you explore the more you get. My opening reportoire has moves upto 34 moves. I play 6 openings against the sicilian -_- ( I am a 1800 i told you)

 

atchess91
Yigor wrote:

This poisoned pawn variation is close to be an inaccuracy:

 

 

I don't think that white has enough compensation for the sacrificed pawn.

10. f5 not Be2

Many top players have played this move.

Yigor
atchess91 wrote:
Yigor wrote:

This poisoned pawn variation is close to be an inaccuracy: 

I don't think that white has enough compensation for the sacrificed pawn.

10. f5 not Be2

Many top players have played this move.

 

10. f5 is even better for black:

 

 

Yigor

Well, it's definitely playable for white and relatively good for a gambit but nothing to be excited about imho. tongue.png

TwoMove

Leko in a chess24 video of a recent tournament explained the possibility of 8Qd3 was one of the reasons elite GM's were playing the delayed poisioned pawn with 7...h6 8Bh4 Qb6. The other reason was to avoid 7...Qb6 8Nb3.

So don't think it is so simple to write off 8.Qd3, and the positions are just as complicated as after 8Qd2. Conceptually, for example. there are positions were playing Qh3 supporting the attack can be useful. 

TwoMove

Caruana v Nakamura 2017 Norway 

http://www.chessgames.com/perl/chessgame?gid=1878014

 

Apparantly 15rg1 was the novelty,

yureesystem

 1.e4 c5 2.Nf3 d6 3.d4 cxd4 4.Nxd4 Nf6 5.Nc3 a6 Najdorf 6.Bg6 e6 7.f4 Qb6 8.Qd3 Qxb2 9.Rb1 Qa3 10.f5! is the best move and black seem to do fine with 10...Qa5, white gets only slight advantage, 11.Bd2! Qc7 12.fxe6 fxe6 13.Be2 Nc6! { 13...Be7?}

toad
StupidGM wrote:

 Stockfish has this at -0.78 but I wouldn't trust it in a line this complex, or I'd leave the machine on for a few days to get the best picture.

 

 

I'd like to highlight this sentence.

 

In the Poisoned Pawn, there are a ton of positions that Stockfish initially evaluates as favorable for black that, at high or very depths (think 40+ or even sometimes 50+) usually resolve to 0.00 but are occasionally good or even winning for white.

 

If you're just letting your computer think for a few minutes here, you're going to miss a lot, and you're going to think black's doing a lot better than our best knowledge currently suggests  (which is that it's all a draw with best play, but both sides have plenty of scope to err in a human game)

MayCaesar

Seems very sketchy. Leaving the b2 pawn undefended is fine, but I don't see what the queen is doing on d3. Why not 8. Qd2 instead? Granted, I don't know Najdorf very well, so forgive the ignorance.

Chase11eleven

My advice: start playing the Kan. I played the najdorf for years and I've found that too often it is way too easy to go wrong with it. It feels like every single move is an only-move position where you have to find the right one and everything else is wrong. All of that hard work just to maintain equality? I think not.

Chase11eleven
pfren wrote:
Chase11eleven έγραψε:

My advice: start playing the Kan. I played the najdorf for years and I've found that too often it is way too easy to go wrong with it. It feels like every single move is an only-move position where you have to find the right one and everything else is wrong. All of that hard work just to maintain equality? I think not.

It's quite easy to go (very) wrong in the Kan as well.

 

As far as I've found so far, not so much so as the najdorf.

yureesystem
pfren wrote:
yureesystem έγραψε:

 1.e4 c5 2.Nf3 d6 3.d4 cxd4 4.Nxd4 Nf6 5.Nc3 a6 Najdorf 6.Bg6 e6 7.f4 Qb6 8.Qd3 Qxb2 9.Rb1 Qa3 10.f5! is the best move and black seem to do fine with 10...Qa5, white gets only slight advantage, 11.Bd2! Qc7 12.fxe6 fxe6 13.Be2 Nc6! { 13...Be7?}

10...Qa5 is not terribly comfortable after 11.Qc4 Nbd7 12.fxe6! Qxg5 13.exf7+ Ke7 (forced) 14.Qe6+ Kd8 15.Qe8+ Nxe8 16.Ne6+ Ke7 17.fxe8=Q+ Kxe8 18.Nxg5, when Black may draw, but it's not that easy.

Your 11.Bd2?! allows 11...e5, when white has problems organizing the attack.

Naka's 10...Be7 is the sane way to play, and the most popular move by far.

 

 

Eventually the black queen is going to Qa5, better sooner than later, there tactics because the loose queen position. 1.f5! Be7 11.fxe6 fxe6 12.Be2 Nc6 13. Nxc6 bxc6 14.Bh5+ { white able to check because the black queen loose position and get his piece back with strong attack too. ( 14...Nxh5 15. Bxe7 Kxe7?? 16.Nd5 wins black queen)} 14...g6 15.e5 dxe5 16.Rb3 Qa5 { black queen eventually goes to Qa5} 17.Bxg6+ hxg6 18.Qxg6+ Kd7 19.Bxf6 Rf8 20.Bxe7 Kxe7 and black is dead lost.

MayCaesar
Chase11eleven wrote:
pfren wrote:
Chase11eleven έγραψε:

My advice: start playing the Kan. I played the najdorf for years and I've found that too often it is way too easy to go wrong with it. It feels like every single move is an only-move position where you have to find the right one and everything else is wrong. All of that hard work just to maintain equality? I think not.

It's quite easy to go (very) wrong in the Kan as well.

 

As far as I've found so far, not so much so as the najdorf.

 

In Najdorf it is easy to miss some tactic costing you the game. In Caro, on the other hand, it is easy to play a bit too passive and end up squeezed and crippled. In a way, in Najdorf it is easy to make a tactical mistake, and in Caro it is easy to make a positional mistake.

yureesystem
StupidGM wrote:
yureesystem wrote:
pfren wrote:
yureesystem έγραψε:

 1.e4 c5 2.Nf3 d6 3.d4 cxd4 4.Nxd4 Nf6 5.Nc3 a6 Najdorf 6.Bg6 e6 7.f4 Qb6 8.Qd3 Qxb2 9.Rb1 Qa3 10.f5! is the best move and black seem to do fine with 10...Qa5, white gets only slight advantage, 11.Bd2! Qc7 12.fxe6 fxe6 13.Be2 Nc6! { 13...Be7?}

10...Qa5 is not terribly comfortable after 11.Qc4 Nbd7 12.fxe6! Qxg5 13.exf7+ Ke7 (forced) 14.Qe6+ Kd8 15.Qe8+ Nxe8 16.Ne6+ Ke7 17.fxe8=Q+ Kxe8 18.Nxg5, when Black may draw, but it's not that easy.

Your 11.Bd2?! allows 11...e5, when white has problems organizing the attack.

Naka's 10...Be7 is the sane way to play, and the most popular move by far.

 

 

Eventually the black queen is going to Qa5, better sooner than later, there tactics because the loose queen position. 1.f5! Be7 11.fxe6 fxe6 12.Be2 Nc6 13. Nxc6 bxc6 14.Bh5+ { white able to check because the black queen loose position and get his piece back with strong attack too. ( 14...Nxh5 15. Bxe7 Kxe7?? 16.Nd5 wins black queen)} 14...g6 15.e5 dxe5 16.Rb3 Qa5 { black queen eventually goes to Qa5} 17..Bxg6+ hxg6 18.Qxg6+ Kd7 19.Bxf6 Rf8 20.Bxe7 Kxe7 and black is dead lost.

 

 

 

 

14...Nxh5 15 Bxe7 Nf4 (0.0) according to Stockfish

 

 

 

Kramnik found out never to trust your engine, he lost to GM Leko because he trust his engine analysis.

 

 Stockfish is wrong. 14.Bh5+ Nxh5 { instead of 14...g6} 15.Bxe7 Nf4 16. Qd4! { is the winning recipe to this position, because 16...Kxe7?? 17.Qxg7+ Ke8 18.Qxh8+ and black lost} 16...e5 17.Qxe5 dxe5 18.Bxa3 Nxg2+ 19.Kf2 Nf4 20.Na4 Be6 21.Nc5 Bxa2 22.Rb6 Kf7 23.Rb7+ Kf6 24 Ke3 Rad8 25.Rf1+ Kg5 and black is dead lost.

 

That is why I always mention study your tactics other wise opening study is a waste of time.

Chase11eleven
MayCaesar wrote:
Chase11eleven wrote:
pfren wrote:
Chase11eleven έγραψε:

My advice: start playing the Kan. I played the najdorf for years and I've found that too often it is way too easy to go wrong with it. It feels like every single move is an only-move position where you have to find the right one and everything else is wrong. All of that hard work just to maintain equality? I think not.

It's quite easy to go (very) wrong in the Kan as well.

 

As far as I've found so far, not so much so as the najdorf.

 

In Najdorf it is easy to miss some tactic costing you the game. In Caro, on the other hand, it is easy to play a bit too passive and end up squeezed and crippled. In a way, in Najdorf it is easy to make a tactical mistake, and in Caro it is easy to make a positional mistake.

I don't mean the Caro-Kann. I mean the Kan Sicilian with e4 c5 Nf3 e6 d4 cxd4 Nxd4 a6

MayCaesar
Chase11eleven wrote:
MayCaesar wrote:
Chase11eleven wrote:
pfren wrote:
Chase11eleven έγραψε:

My advice: start playing the Kan. I played the najdorf for years and I've found that too often it is way too easy to go wrong with it. It feels like every single move is an only-move position where you have to find the right one and everything else is wrong. All of that hard work just to maintain equality? I think not.

It's quite easy to go (very) wrong in the Kan as well.

 

As far as I've found so far, not so much so as the najdorf.

 

In Najdorf it is easy to miss some tactic costing you the game. In Caro, on the other hand, it is easy to play a bit too passive and end up squeezed and crippled. In a way, in Najdorf it is easy to make a tactical mistake, and in Caro it is easy to make a positional mistake.

I don't mean the Caro-Kann. I mean the Kan Sicilian with e4 c5 Nf3 e6 d4 cxd4 Nxd4 a6

 

Ah, okay, my bad!

yureesystem
StupidGM wrote:
yureesystem wrote:
StupidGM wrote:
yureesystem wrote:
pfren wrote:
yureesystem έγραψε:

 1.e4 c5 2.Nf3 d6 3.d4 cxd4 4.Nxd4 Nf6 5.Nc3 a6 Najdorf 6.Bg6 e6 7.f4 Qb6 8.Qd3 Qxb2 9.Rb1 Qa3 10.f5! is the best move and black seem to do fine with 10...Qa5, white gets only slight advantage, 11.Bd2! Qc7 12.fxe6 fxe6 13.Be2 Nc6! { 13...Be7?}

10...Qa5 is not terribly comfortable after 11.Qc4 Nbd7 12.fxe6! Qxg5 13.exf7+ Ke7 (forced) 14.Qe6+ Kd8 15.Qe8+ Nxe8 16.Ne6+ Ke7 17.fxe8=Q+ Kxe8 18.Nxg5, when Black may draw, but it's not that easy.

Your 11.Bd2?! allows 11...e5, when white has problems organizing the attack.

Naka's 10...Be7 is the sane way to play, and the most popular move by far.

 

 

Eventually the black queen is going to Qa5, better sooner than later, there tactics because the loose queen position. 1.f5! Be7 11.fxe6 fxe6 12.Be2 Nc6 13. Nxc6 bxc6 14.Bh5+ { white able to check because the black queen loose position and get his piece back with strong attack too. ( 14...Nxh5 15. Bxe7 Kxe7?? 16.Nd5 wins black queen)} 14...g6 15.e5 dxe5 16.Rb3 Qa5 { black queen eventually goes to Qa5} 17..Bxg6+ hxg6 18.Qxg6+ Kd7 19.Bxf6 Rf8 20.Bxe7 Kxe7 and black is dead lost.

 

 

 

 

14...Nxh5 15 Bxe7 Nf4 (0.0) according to Stockfish

 

 

 

Kramnik found out never to trust your engine, he lost to GM Leko because he trust his engine analysis.

 

 Stockfish is wrong. 14.Bh5+ Nxh5 { instead of 14...g6} 15.Bxe7 Nf4 16. Qd4! { is the winning recipe to this position, because 16...Kxe7?? 17.Qxg7+ Ke8 18.Qxh8+ and black lost} 16...e5 17.Qxe5 dxe5 18.Bxa3 Nxg2+ 19.Kf2 Nf4 20.Na4 Be6 21.Nc5 Bxa2 22.Rb6 Kf7 23.Rb7+ Kf6 24 Ke3 Rad8 25.Rf1+ Kg5 and black is dead lost.

 

That is why I always mention study your tactics other wise opening study is a waste of time.

17...Qc1+ 18 Rxc1 dxe5 19 Bd6 Nxg2+ 20 Kf2 Nf4 21 Rb1 Ra7 (0.35)

 

Yawn.

 

 

 

 

Your yawning show the type of player you are. You don't realize the danger in these endgame with opposite color bishops and knights and rooks is extremely difficult for the defender to defend in these position, black will have a hard time to activate the king rook and compare to white freedom of his pieces and they work well together. Stockfish cannot teach you how to play the endgame, that is why opening study is a waste of time for amateur, its better to be proficient in tactics and endgame than opening.