Fide sparks anger for ‘misogynistic’ deal

Sorry everybody. I suppose I'm still interested in the good/sin concept, and the fact that dogs sometimes kill infants seemed like it might complicate the "dogs are nice" assumption. Forgive me. 

There's a dichotomy, to my mind at least, between interpretations of evil. Evil to me is simply "bad stuff that happens" or maybe threatens. To a lot of people, though, evil sort of has to be tied up with evil intent and I think that's a fundamental mistake, made by a lot of people and which ties them up in knots.

The Alan Pegler thing, above, is an example of "good" which was the result of his emotional and rational judgement and decision to save a beautiful piece of machinery, which has the effect of making a lot of people very happy, which is good. Dogs that kill infants is "bad stuff that happens" and it's partly the fault of the parents, because dogs can be dangerous. No evil intent is presumably involved but the outcome may be said to be evil or disastrous.

Those numbers are good to know.

But Im asking specifically about MOTIVA. Of course there are instances of breast implants and augmentation going bad, this doesn't mean in general that either isn't reliable to use.

It's like saying Cars brakes fail sometimes, or the engine blows up and the person driving ends up in a fatal crash, therefore Cars are bad for people that want to transport. That's not how you approach things.

Now again, Im asking for what MOTIVA itself has done, that is as optimissed said "HARMFUL, to women". simply citing cases of breast implants or augmentation going wrong and causing death isn't an answer to that, for the 50th time. I never said I was an expert. I'm not, I don't care about implants, i dont need them, but If there is something Motiva has done, i'd love to know about it. Problem is no one is saying. Optimissed gave up, now you're deciding to follow a similar argument, so please tell us what MOTIVA has done wrong, not how breast implants/augmentation can cause damage to people that (of their own will) decide to get them. 

So after all of those paragraphs, you still can't answer the question.

This debunks any claim of misogyny or sexism in this deal. You can't even explain what Motiva has done that is sexist or harmful to women. 

Your general argument is that breast implants/Augmentation causes death, illnesses etc, therefore this partnership from FIDE is sexist. It's the dumbest argument i've ever heard. Again even if we ignore the original premise of my question, and we look at your points, It makes no sense you bringing this up because women have a choice to get implants or not. No ones forcing women to get implants/augmentation, and the majority of implants end up working just fine. All you're essentially saying is that breast implant/augmentation technology is just not up to speed yet. Then don't get implants, wait for the technology to improve then go and get an implant if you want. What does this have to do with sexism? a company is offering a service, you're free to use it or not. 

Also in your comment you referenced things multiple times from 2 decades or more ago, in the 90's. Talk about the technology now, it's come a long way from back then. 

Optimissed failed to prove this is a sexist deal between FIDE and Motiva. You now have also failed. Anyone else want to try?

Are you supid?

we're not talking about womens health.

Have you seen what this post is about? that's what I'm talking about.

You need to get mental help. Thats what we're talkng about here, Fide and motiva.

Of course i agree Breast implant technology should be improved so women can get safe work done, but we're not talking about the breast implant industry as a whole right now.

Please read about the topic before making idiotic irrelevant arguments and insulting people. 

Im not saying a cars breaks and womens health is the same you moron. The car example was to explain how you can't just call an entire industry misogynistic and sexist because its products don't work perfectly. Actually if anything the car example is even more important because people lose their lives while operating a car much more often than getting a breast implant.

All you're doing is exposing your own narrowminded idiotic viewpoint

Now you're resorting to ad-hominum because you realised how stupid you look now.

Your english for a Canadian is really bad. 

no wonder you don't understand what anyone is saying lol. You talk about egos a lot but you need to fix your own.

Votre anglais est horrible, tenez-vous en au français. Vous pensez que c'est un argument, il ne l'est pas. Je vous ai posé des questions sur Motiva, vous ne pouviez rien dire, et à la place, continuez à parler de choses sans rapport avec le message d'origine. Et tu commences par les insultes, pas moi. Maintenant vas-y

FIDE's contract with Motiva is an advert for the industry as a whole and the industry as a whole is a bad thing, as I hope it's now been established. I stopped responding to you because you wouldn't accept my motives for not wishing to give evidence that is cut to size, for reasons I explained. I did explain how I think research should be undertaken. You shouldn't expect to be spoon fed. To be credible, you should show that you're capable of finding and recognising negative evidence.

I wasn't trying to prove that. A deductive proof consists of a rearrangement of premises which, in themselves, already demonstrate a proof, in order to put them into a more easily assimilable form.

I prefer to state my opinion, which is what I did. You can rebut it as much as you like but you can't refute an opinion and hopefully, although perhaps not in your case, it will inspire some people to do some research into a subject, for themselves.

All you're essentially saying is that breast implant/augmentation technology is just not up to speed yet. Then don't get implants, wait for the technology to improve then go and get an implant if you want. What does this have to do with sexism? a company is offering a service, you're free to use it or not.>>

My idea's better. Boycott the artificial implant industry rather than promote it. Women who need such implants for medical reasons will still find it. Those who are ok about destroying their lives and damaging the lives of their family members for reasons that are based on nothing but vanity won't be encouraged so much to do so. If you actually cared about people other than yourself, I think you would see that.

Soniasthetics, reading through your argument with Eric2, the main problem with what you write is that you do jump to conclusions. You seem to be basing your defence of this industry on a refutation of an argument that it's misogynistic and yet that isn't central to the argument against the deal between FIDE and Motiva, partly because women too play chess. Your conclusions that "such and such a person" has failed to prove "this or that" are only your own judgements and claims, which you don't support by any form of reasoned argument. But WHY are you arguing so vehemently for Motiva and FIDE? It's starting to seem as though you have a very strong, vested interest in this discussion.

Incidentally, I enjoyed reading your French and that of Eric2. I can't speak or write French but I can read it and I understand spoken French at least to some extent. I spent some time in Montreal in the 1980s, with French-speaking people. My ex wife is from Montreal, but an English speaker and my daughter lives there now. She was raised in the Jewish faith by her mother but is much less conservative than her. Anyhow, I did have other, Francophone friends and used to get them to speak French if I could speak English and it worked pretty well. I also did the same thing with some French Canadians I was living with for a while in a jungle in India. It's nice to be able to read French but I doubt I'll ever learn to speak it.

You can read it but not speak french? interesting. 

Anyway this is another bad argument. boycotting industries won't help them get better.

If you want technology to improve you need to give it resources and time to grow, and this is amplified when there is competition. Lasik eye surgery is a great example of such.

So actually, you're the one thinking about yourself and your own image of appearing "supportive" of women rather than actually finding out the best solution to societal problems. 

I learned French at school. I also learned German. I got a good pass in the French exams and a fail in German but spent much more time in Germany and so my German was fine but something weird happened when I was 18. I was really, really tired and I crossed the border into France fro Germany and I couldn't speak French any more. I was mixing up German words with it. I was really embarrassed because the French are sometimes easily insulted. I mean, this was 1969 and they were still thinking about WWII! I think, there and then, I just shelved French and tried to improve my German. I mean, I can speak bits of French and my accent's fine but ....

Yeah that kind of environment would be difficult to maintain your french. I learned both German and French and its difficult to keep the information for both in your head. 

Perhaps we shouldn't want it to "get better". It's a bad argument from your perspective and I don't know what your perspective is. It certainly isn't neutral. Well, perhaps I could guess but I won't. I must say, though, that the way your mind works seems a bit strange. It seems you like to blame others quite a lot. Do you consider yourself to be a clever person? It isn't really coming across like it but I'm aware that personal interest can distort how a person comes across. By and large, I didn't think that the more intelligent people are or were arguing for your side. Well, there's intelligence and intelligence. One person told me that I obviously don't have the intellect of the women who buy these products and make up their own mind. His chess rating was 2300 to 2400 so that tells me more about narrow perspectives than anything else. Some people can seem and even be quite bright but they can't think very well about subjects they don't understand.

You talk about intelligence a lot but then assume others intelligence or their opinions while simultaneously admitting you're not 100% sure on that exact same thing lol. 

I'd say be more worried about your own intelligence.

Also no, it's not a bad argument from my "perspective" its a bad argument in general. You never improve things by boycotting them. It rarely works, and it's very situational. I don't have an opinion on the implants industry, i never had any, and I personally don't think it's good to modify your body. but I understand that some people want to do it, and the industry is working at improving the technology, why hamper that process by boycotting the entire industry instead of letting it grow?