Fischer Wins `69 WCC?


In 1960 vs Botvinnik would have been an excellent match.
In 1963 Fischer wins vs Bot.
In 1966 I think it is close, I like Petrosian with draw odds.
In 1969 I think Fischer beats Petrosian.
In 1975 I think there was a real risk that Fischer would have been worn out by the Soviet machine and the young Karpov but still favor Fischer.
in 78 If Fischer won in 1975 then he would be at least even odds vs Karpov here as he would have the psychological confidence.

He would have to pass through the Candidates (i.e. Spassky) for the 1969 WC with Petrosian. I think he wasn't psychologically quite ready to meet and defeat Spassky at that time--even if he could be termed the stronger player.

I remember a similar comment. Botvinnik was summarizing Fischer's game in general and said it was easy to see through to his aim in the game. Someone noted with irony (Spassky?) that he thought a Fischer-Botvinnik match would be quite hard for Mikhail.
Try Chess Life around the time of Botvinnik's death.

Chessmetrics has Fischer hitting number one after the Capablanca Memorial in Havana in 1965 where he finished first in front of Smyslov and Geller. He certainly looked to be in excellent form in Sousse Interzonal 1967 7.5/9 before he pulled out.

Botvinnik was 52 in 1963 - Mentally, Fischer would have struggled, but physically he would have had a large advantage.

Losing that game to fischer crushed botvinnik he wasnt the same player after that.
Botvinnik only played Fischer once and that game ended in a draw......

Losing that game to fischer crushed botvinnik he wasnt the same player after that.
Botvinnik only played Fischer once and that game ended in a draw......
I was thinking that as well. I assume he meant Petrosian? Not sure.

Yes, this is in part why I was wondering if he may have been able to do it earlier because he did pull out midway in excellent position. Also, I heard that he kept disappearing for stretches, like years (2-3) at a time and not compete for one reason or another. Even in 1970 (with Spassky preparing for the `72 WC), the Russian were not too concerned with Fischer because he was not playing until he decide to play again, and of course, Pal Benko giving up his spot to Fischer. I'm now wondering if he would have been WC at all if Benko did not do this for him.
Most likely not WC without Benko's spot.

Chessmetrics has Fischer hitting number one after the Capablanca Memorial in Havana in 1965 where he finished first in front of Smyslov and Geller. He certainly looked to be in excellent form in Sousse Interzonal 1967 7.5/9 before he pulled out.
Only he didn't. He was SECOND TO FOURTH BEHIND Smislov

In 1960 and 1963 he was too green to play WC match (proof for that is that he failed to qualify from the candidates tournaments).
In 1966 and 1969 he would have to play against SPassky on his way to the match. I'm not sure that he could win that match.

In 1960 and 1963 he was too green to play WC match (proof for that is that he failed to qualify from the candidates tournaments).
In 1966 and 1969 he would have to play against SPassky on his way to the match. I'm not sure that he could win that match.
Disagree. The 62' candidate cycle was a total sham, one of the rare cases where I agree with Fischer on anything.
I think if you actually looked at the 1962 Candidates matches you would see that Fischer not winning has more to do with Petrosian, Geller and Keres giving each other easy draws to save energy for Fischer. I even have to wonder about Tal and Kortchnoi's performance in the Candidates. Neither won a single game vs PGK - coincidence?
Nonetheless, my initial post assumes only a match with the WC of that time, obviously we know his performance in the candidates of those years.

In 1960 and 1963 he was too green to play WC match (proof for that is that he failed to qualify from the candidates tournaments).
In 1966 and 1969 he would have to play against SPassky on his way to the match. I'm not sure that he could win that match.
Disagree. The 62' candidate cycle was a total sham, one of the rare cases where I agree with Fischer on anything.
I think if you actually looked at the 1962 Candidates matches you would see that Fischer not winning has more to do with Petrosian, Geller and Keres giving each other easy draws to save energy for Fischer. I even have to wonder about Tal and Kortchnoi's performance in the Candidates. Neither won a single game vs PGK - coincidence?
Nonetheless, my initial post assumes only a match with the WC of that time, obviously we know his performance in the candidates of those years.
I'd disagree here. The "saving energy for Fischer" theory is weak. GM draws for rest is understandable. It happens all the time. But Fischer remained in charge of his destiny, and failed, and cried like the Jackass he was. But Petrosian, Geller and Keres are wonderful players, so yes, not a coincidence, and not a scam. And to believe Korchnoi, about having to throw games, ranks with many bizarre Korchnoi claims that make no sense. Fischer had his chance and failed. Nothing sinister about it.

Fair enough, in 68 if Fischer faced Spassky in the final round of the candidates I would have bet on Spassky.

R I P Bobby!
You can never have your corpse exhumed enough, even for comedic reasons, Bobby!

I'd disagree here. The "saving energy for Fischer" theory is weak. GM draws for rest is understandable. It happens all the time. But Fischer remained in charge of his destiny, and failed, and cried like the Jackass he was. But Petrosian, Geller and Keres are wonderful players, so yes, not a coincidence, and not a scam. And to believe Korchnoi, about having to throw games, ranks with many bizarre Korchnoi claims that make no sense. Fischer had his chance and failed. Nothing sinister about it.
Trysts - Your Fischer loathing seems to keep you from being objective on this one.

You believe Fischer could have won as early as `63?
I am not claiming either way, but I am not sure if that would have been possible for a 20 year old Fischer to accomplish. I believe that there's more to a chess match than just playing a game and winning; it's a long match and it would require physical & mental stamina that I am not sure Fischer possesed at that point in his career. I was thinking more along the line of 1-cycle earlier.
In the article in SI on Aug 20, 1962 Fischer stated "I personally would be willing to play a match with Botvinnik at any time, letting him decide the minimum and maximum stakes we would play for, and the time and place. I would go so far as to spot him the advantage of two points in a match of 24 points. It isn't conceit that leads me to say I could come out the victor with ease in such a competition; it is simply that Botvinnik has been world champion too long, his reign perpetuated by the system that selects his opponents, and he is no longer a chess master of championship caliber"
So that was his opinion at the time :)