French Defense, weak?

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bean_Fischer
EricFleet wrote:

I am rated above 2000 in 3 day online chess, but I think I have lost or drawn every French game I have played as White. I do not understand it but keep entering it because I want to understand it better.

 

The nice thing from French defense is white cannot relax and make a weak move. The counter from black will be swift if played correctly. It doesn't happen the other way, because French is solid, black can make a weak move and recover.

In Blitz game, white doesn't have enough time to think of the best moves, and it's an advantage for black.

Mainline_Novelty
bean_Fischer wrote:
EricFleet wrote:

I am rated above 2000 in 3 day online chess, but I think I have lost or drawn every French game I have played as White. I do not understand it but keep entering it because I want to understand it better.

 

The nice thing from French defense is white cannot relax and make a weak move. The counter from black will be swift if played correctly. It doesn't happen the other way, because French is solid, black can make a weak move and recover.

In Blitz game, white doesn't have enough time to think of the best moves, and it's an advantage for black.

King's Indian Attack, your argument is invalid.

cassini_1
French is good and solid opening unless you are at least GM. The main problem for white is that it requires lot of special knowledge. So it's better to stick to one major line, study several games of GM and get a good grasp of main plans.
Kingpatzer
pfren wrote:

The very last thing that could possibly bother a French defence afficionado is the King's Indian "Attack".

Agreed. The only response to the French that worries me is 3. Nc3.

Why?

Because that's the only move from white that says to black "Go ahead and bring your sharpest lines against me, I'm fighting for my advantage and you can't have it without taking it from me."

Everything else says "I'm conceding my advantage because I don't know what else to do."

Now, that's not true above the club level players -- when there are good reasons to play the advanced or tarrasch. But at the club level it has held true for every OTB French I've ever played. Against anything but 3. Nc3 I always come out of the opening better than my oponnent. I might still lose it in the middle game, but I'll win the opening battle.  
 

SmyslovFan

As an avid francophile, I used to love to face the Advance Variation. But ever since Sveshnikov's lines started getting played by everyone with a rating, life has gotten harder for Black. Even so, I still like Black's game.

3.Nc3 is challenging, but it's the sort of challenge that every francophile loves. Black can choose between the Winawer and Classical treatments or even try something like 3...Be7. (Yeah, I know 3...Be7 was crushed earlier this week in an elite game, but it's still interesting.)

3.Nd2 has to be just about the easiest for a francophile to play against. I'm not saying it's bad. It's a fantastic opening for white. But the Tarrasch allows Black precisely the sort of play he dreams of. 

The opening I dislike the most in the French is the Exchange variation. But that is only true when White is truly a strong player and he's seeking to win. Below about master strength, the Exchange variation gives Black ample opportunities to win. And it usually shows that White is afraid of the French, or lazy, or both. Above the master level, the Exchange variation can be very dangerous, as even Gary Kasparov has shown. 

I don't have much respect for the King's Indian Attack, but Mark Dvoretsky has shown that it's not toothless. If white has studied Dvoretsky, it can be challenging. But most times, even in blitz and bullet chess, a well-prepared francophile has a tremendous practical advantage against the KIA. We face it often enough that every avid French player has at least one good line against it.

Gloomshroom
Mainline_Novelty wrote:

King's Indian Attack, your argument is invalid.

I love playing against the KIA in Blitz games. The faster they move, the better. There are setups that never allow White to play e5, and without that beloved automatic move, an embarassing number of White players sink into deep thought and go "but but but... I'm supposed to... I can't... ehm... now what?" Happy times.

bean_Fischer

I don't really have much understanding about openings. But I think French is easier than Sicilian or Ruy Lopez. I don't even know KIA.

I don't even know what variation I did in this recent game. It's wild, but again I did well. At least I withheld white storm.



atarw
SmyslovFan wrote:

As an avid francophile, I used to love to face the Advance Variation. But ever since Sveshnikov's lines started getting played by everyone with a rating, life has gotten harder for Black. Even so, I still like Black's game.

3.Nc3 is challenging, but it's the sort of challenge that every francophile loves. Black can choose between the Winawer and Classical treatments or even try something like 3...Be7. (Yeah, I know 3...Be7 was crushed earlier this week in an elite game, but it's still interesting.)

3.Nd2 has to be just about the easiest for a francophile to play against. I'm not saying it's bad. It's a fantastic opening for white. But the Tarrasch allows Black precisely the sort of play he dreams of. 

The opening I dislike the most in the French is the Exchange variation. But that is only true when White is truly a strong player and he's seeking to win. Below about master strength, the Exchange variation gives Black ample opportunities to win. And it usually shows that White is afraid of the French, or lazy, or both. Above the master level, the Exchange variation can be very dangerous, as even Gary Kasparov has shown. 

I don't have much respect for the King's Indian Attack, but Mark Dvoretsky has shown that it's not toothless. If white has studied Dvoretsky, it can be challenging. But most times, even in blitz and bullet chess, a well-prepared francophile has a tremendous practical advantage against the KIA. We face it often enough that every avid French player has at least one good line against it.

You forgot the Advance Variation, it is pretty sharp.

HotBoxRes

French isn't weak, no. But things get harder for black at the 2200+ level, when your opponents actually know what they are doing. It's not always a carefree stroll in the park.

Irjene

when i play against french defence i draw. I don't play it though as i hate haveing that pawn blocking my bishop. In my opinion it's not weak but gives black a solid but cramped position

day_widni69

Yes, go through Belgium. Usually works!

SmyslovFan
day_widni69 wrote:

Yes, go through Belgium. Usually works!

Well, it worked once. 

day_widni69

Made that wall thingy look a bit silly, all that money.

SmyslovFan
DaBigOne wrote:
SmyslovFan wrote:

As an avid francophile, I used to love to face the Advance Variation. But ever since Sveshnikov's lines started getting played by everyone with a rating, life has gotten harder for Black. Even so, I still like Black's game.

 ...

You forgot the Advance Variation, it is pretty sharp.

Umm...

atarw

ahh, sorry, responded to wrong post

I meant to respond to @kingpatzer

Mainline_Novelty

My point wasn't that the KIA is something that should keep a French player awake at night, or even that it holds any advantage for White. It was just responding to the post that said that Black can just play natural moves in the French, and that if he makes an inaccuracy, it doesn't matter much. IMO in the KIA, that's more true for White than for Black, that's all. I don't play the French KIA with either side, so I do stand a good chance of being wrong Embarassed

InfiniteFlash

the OP is kingpatzer.

I find that it's easiest to play for a win in almost every french, but the tarrasch 3.Nd2, white's play is very solid. 

I have be very accurate in my IQP structures against it, but if I am, then usually i am doing excellently vs it.

atarw

the OP is bean_Fischer

InfiniteFlash

The french advance is....well not hard to play against...black has numerous setups vs it, its one of those openings thats not drawish = imo, its  just = with play for both sides.

3.nc3 is a crap hole, that every player should play from both sides eventually in their lives....the theory may be finite, but I don't see the end.

bean_Fischer
DaBigOne wrote:

the OP is bean_Fischer

Never mind. He is a king patzer himself. lol. :D