Shall I pay to watch WCC?

And this is the thing that's so dangerous, when big corporations try to trample on the rights of others, when those people don't know their rights they get coerced into compliance.

Listen up people:

If you are an American citizen, part of an American organization or otherwise, NOBODY, corporate entity or otherwise, has the right to tell you that you "can't" provide commentary on a particular subject. Noone.

 

They also do not have the right to tell you that you "can't" publish certain things you have witnessed "IE Chess moves" on a forum in written form, such as the internet.

 

The sad thing here, is that AGON have done tangible damage to the game of chess with these bogus legal threats. Any judge that sees their "case" will have it summarily thrown out of court, because it is in direct violation of the 1st amendment rights of Chess.com and all other american outlets who want to broadcast the games and provide commentary.

 

What's equally as sad is that Chess.com and others have allowed themselves to be bullied into cooperating with an oppressive FOREIGN entity, to the point where they are afraid to exercise their most basic human rights. This is bigger than Chess, this affects us ALL the world over. It is about standing up to media giants and telling them that they have to respect the law just like everybody else.

 

And if I'm honest? I'm a little disappointed not to see Chess.com stand up for themselves a bit here. If you don't put a stop to this injustice now, you are only giving it an incentive to spread.

 

So backing away from the legal aspects of this and returning to the moral inquiry, and in response to your question OP, should you pay to see the WC commentary?

 

Absolutely not. In so doing you are not only rewarding AGON for threatening the fundamental rights of people the world over, but you are in fact helping to promote the deterioration of interest in the great game of chess by allowing ONE organization to give sole coverage of the greatest event in our sport.

 

#BoycottAGON

this is what I told before in two lines

Agon is broadcasting to a global audience so the 1st Amendment is largely meaningless, not all the rival outlets are based in the US - chess24 is German.

Agon is not seeking to claim ownership over the moves once each game is over, they only seek ownership over the live broadcast and accompanying commentary in real-time. 

The dispute largely revolves around timing, at which point does each move become public domain?

More details here:

https://www.chess.com/news/carlsen-plays-white-in-round-one-agon-s-injunction-denied-7037

Damn, who needs an engine when Judit is in the room?!

Is Anastasiya Karlovich still doing the press conferences?

I once was watching one involving her, Olga Girya and Kosteniuk and got seriously slapped on my neck...

 You're not getting this. Each move IS ALREADY public domain. It becomes public domain the first time someone witnesses it and then relays their experience in any way, shape or form. The question you should be asking is "Why is AGON attempting to make chess moves private?" Well duh, so they can have exclusive copyright to something which is fundamentally un-copyrightable and make a load of cash off of it.

 

The fact that the rest of us will be sent back to the stone-age where we don't have any interactive broadcasts except the AGON "sponsored" version (which you have to PAY for btw) means less than nothing to them. And if you are silly enough to pay the 15$ just for the privilege of hearing live commentary and don't like the commentators/commentary? Tough luck, cause they are the only ones doing it.

 

Basically, AGON is communism for chess. #BoycottAGON

Kosteniuk and Karpov are forever being asked to pose together for photos, the two 12th World Champions.

C'mon, that just ridiculous. Agon is capitalism for chess and it's a natural progression too, all other sports have been commercialised. Did Motorola make NBA a "communist" venture?

Crony capitalism, maybe. Like the kind you see with U.S. mega corporations buying off congressmen. But free-market capitalism encourages competition, which gives us more options and incentivizes companies to make their product better, at a good value. Check the standard of living in Switzerland for a good example.

 

AGON is trying, and so far successfully judging by how they've scared everyone into capitulation, to take your options away. Leaving you an AGON sponsored website, AGON GMs and AGON commentary all while virtually extorting you to pay for it by suppressing the rights of other outlets to perform their own commentary. So they are in total control of what you are allocated as far as a live broadcast is concerned, hence the communism analogy.

 

Furthermore and more critically, I hold that your comparison of Chess with the NBA to be invalid for the following reason: There is a fundamental difference between copyrighting and monetizing a broadcast and copyrighting and monetizing the transmission of what has occurred at same sporting event.

 

You can copyright a broadcast of a sporting/gaming event, because you own the cameras and equipment, the production company, the rights to the venue, television/advertising/exclusivity contracts, and you are employing the people working for said production company.

 

You can NOT, however, copyright the transmission of what happens at the game by the public. That's why radio stations cover all manner of sports games, because it is within their legal right to do so, just as it is within Chess.com's legal right to provide their own live commentary of the world championship match. They have simply (and sadly) been "bullied" into backing off.

 

The former has been the conclusion thus far of the U.S. District Court concerning this case and will be the conclusion of every judge who has it summarily thrown out of court due to its unconstitutionality.

 

 

I don't like this development any more than anyone else but it seems inevitable that chess is going to be commercialised sooner or later, if not by AGON then by some other enterprise.

FIDE is caught between a rock and a hard place in this respect, what other model out there is going to develop the game to the extent that there's a $1million prize fund for every world championship, chess.com? Don't make me laugh!

And comparing chess to the standard of living in Switzerland is definitely spurious by the way...

What AGON is arguing I believe, is that the chess moves are the core experience of chess. Watching a football(soccer) game is a lot different than listening to it on the radio. The thing is that in chess there is not so big a difference between listening/watching a guy comment on some moves without seeing the players and watching the players play with commentary. There is a slight difference, but not a lot.


Because of this it is very difficult for AGON to make a lot of money. And of course they want to atleast break even so that's why they want the right to keep the moves for themselves until after the game is finished. It's really easy to understand them, but sueing other companies was uncool. Especially since chess24 is probably legally right...

Yeah it's a tricky one I grant you, but we all know that in a capitalist society money talks and there's absolutely no reason to suppose that the chess world is going to somehow remain immunised from this.

Carlsen and Karjakin are playing for the title of World Chess Champion but the $1miillion purse isn't trivial - that kind of money has to come from somewhere.

I can see that some of the stuff Agon is offering looks really good, like the virtual reality 360° thing and the commentries. So, I would not mind paying for that. 

But where they have gone wrong IMO, is to sue other websites, who are doing no harm. That just makes them seem like greedy corporate b***ds

Anyway, looked like a boring book move Ruy Lopez today?

The only IM I know personally devotes his entire working life to chess, he is acting editor for a chess publishing house, he writes extensively, he plays regular simuls and he competes for prize money. Even with all that behind him, he still relies on sponsorship from a (rich) benefactor.

The AGON business model is a serious attempt to develop chess as a global activity and develop the game to the extent that IMs such as my clubmate don't need to work like dogs just to pay the bills...

I didn't watch anything on chess.com today, I watched on chess24.  Did chess.com not carry any feed?

Is the show that chess24 had, something that Agon and FIDE are trying to stop?  I'm just trying to understand what the issues are.

If people think they have some right to a live feed to actually watch the players as the game progresses, I think they're wrong.  Pay per view (PPV) has been around for literally decades in sports such as boxing, wrestling and, close to me, pool.  If you want to watch the actual event, you've got to pay up.

Well it's a simple question you ask Carla. In my opinion it's entirely up to you. You will always get people dictating what they think others should or shouldn't do. Don't worry about the politics and dramas away from the game. Leave that for the lawyers. If you want to watch the WCC and can't get a ticket to New York or a ticket to get in or can't hire Judit Polgar to commentate for you then you might like to pay $15 for your own personnel pleasure. There might even be a code you can find on the internet that can bring the small fee down a bit more. I paid £9.35p with a discount code found on the net ; ) which covers the whole event 11-30 Nov. The cost of 3 beers down my local. I stream it from an iPad app cast it to my t.v put the kettle on and chill out. Your choice ultimately.

It's worth the $15.  I took off work to watch the first 6 games. 8)  

 

THe first game there were issue and it didn't start broadcasting til move 8.  Today (game 2) was much better.

 

I find it worth it, and they will hopefully learn *a lot* from the experience. There were some legal issues with other sites showing the moves as they were sent.  I believe the judge in the "united" (at gun point) states ruled it was allowed for other sites to comment on the live games.  But the video feed is worth having.  I'm not sure if chess.com has the live feed for premium members or not.  

As long as they handle the remaining games well, I'll be participating in more of these.  But my job gets in the way of live viewing so I'm not sure.  I believe in paying to support the sport too though so I may pay for live games and then catch the live feed on youtube later.  

They have decent commentary on the games and there's something fun about watching Carlsen and Karjakin deep in thought while I'm looking at the same board, mouth open, baffled at some of their moves. 8)  I love chess.