Probably hard to think straight where WGMs are involved (so, we need more women chess organizers).
sftac
GM = WGM > IM
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I really think that there should be no different titles for men or women. This is one sport where the playing board is equal. I know there are lots of men who say women will never be as strong as men. With exception of most men's grandmasters, most us men would get beaten badly on the chessboard by most of the high ranked women. So I don't buy that theory. The chessboard is equal for everyone, be it old, young, man or woman. So do away with the seperate titles already.
Or, replace GM with MGM (man grand master).
sftac
The problem is, fundamentally, a lack of interest in the game from young women, which is precisely the rationale behind the WGM titles. Prominent women players raise the profile of the game among women, and the WGM title raises the profile of the top women players.
It's an imperfect solution to an otherwise intractable chicken-and-egg problem.
Sep 11, 2011
0
#6
I agree. I think it looks silly to have "WGM". Let them be IMs until they become GMs. Though I'm not against women-only tournaments.
AfafBouardi wrote:
I agree. I think it looks silly to have "WGM". Let them be IMs until they become GMs. Though I'm not against women-only tournaments.
+1
AfafBouardi wrote:
.. I think it looks silly to have "WGM". Let them be IMs until they become GMs. ...
A WGM title (assuming norms are met) requires a rating of 2300+ the same as an FM.
http://www.fide.com/fide/handbook.html?id=58&view=article
| 1.3 |
Those titles gained by achieving a published or interim rating at some time or other:
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| 1.52 |
To have achieved at some time or other a rating as follows:
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Abolishing the WGM title means most would be FMs not IMs. Then there would be no favourable conditions at all.
Natalia Pogonina is an exception having reached 2500 (minimum GM level) previously. If the IM norms have not been met she would be an FM as well.
With the current favourable WGM tournament conditions, if she had the IM norms, she may hesitate to pay for the IM title to be ratified as it would be detrimental to receiving conditions from tournament organizers.
AfafBouardi wrote:
I agree. I think it looks silly to have "WGM". Let them be IMs until they become GMs. Though I'm not against women-only tournaments.
Gender discrimination in any form, would seem to be a giant step backward.
sftac
Handing out a "WGM" title is like handing out a sarcastic, "good for a girl" title. I'd like to have a title in general, but I'd rather have no title than some certificate for "trying hard" or something. In other words, I want either an earned title, or none at all.
Elubas wrote:
Handing out a "WGM" title is like handing out a sarcastic, "good for a girl" title. I'd like to have a title in general, but I'd rather have no title than some certificate for "trying hard" or something. In other words, I want either an earned title, or none at all.
+1. WGM is patronizing to say the least.
EvanWarhol wrote:
I really think that there should be no different titles for men or women. This is one sport where the playing board is equal. I know there are lots of men who say women will never be as strong as men. With exception of most men's grandmasters, most us men would get beaten badly on the chessboard by most of the high ranked women. So I don't buy that theory. The chessboard is equal for everyone, be it old, young, man or woman. So do away with the seperate titles already.
Couldn't agree more, had the very same conversation many times it just seems completly nonsensical and patronizing to women who are quite capable of being as good if not better than us men folk. And the title itself is only devalued as a conciquence of the differences it seems to me. The point made about raising the profile of top women therefore attracting more to the game is a good one but it would be interesting to see if/when the number of females increased to reach equality or thereabouts to males, would the titles be merged/equalized, im sure if not the women themselves would lobby for it, wouldn't they ?
The most recent discussion forum about this: http://www.chess.com/forum/view/general/why-do-we-have-woman-categories
http://www.chessdom.com/1st-qin-huangdao-open-chess-tournament
" 2. Accommodation fee
Open Section: According to the registration sequence, organizer will provide free full accommodations to the first 50 men/women grandmasters; Other Men/women grandmasters and the first 50 international masters registered in sequence should pay .... "
As indicated by WGM Natalia Pogonina, in the comments, a WGM can get the same conditions as a GM. http://www.chess.com/article/view/the-coveted-titles
"Also, the conditions I get are usually based on my last name, not title. Or, worst case scenario, if the organizer doesn't understand the chess hierarchy at all, he will offer you typical grandmaster conditions that are usually equal among GM/WGM."
If she was an IM she would be treated worse even though the title is better.
Are the titles so difficult to understand that chess organizers do not understand them?