Go VS Chess

I just looked up the rules for Go (I've heard of it, but I've never played), and at a first glance they seem similar to the rules for John Conway's "Game of Life". Go might be interesting intellectually, as it could be mathematically analyzed as the "Game of Life" is (and of course, chess could be too).

Oh wow, then it seems like programmers have a long way to go then (I guess they already know this hah).

I had an intense but brief love affair with go back in the early '80s.  The guy in the next office was a 5 kyu, but a very experienced teacher.  Even better, while his tactics just weren't very good, he had this really intuituve understanding of strategy and the ability to explain it really well.  He spent a lot of time working with me since he was essentially a teacher at heart and it was obvious I was to be his all-time star pupil.

I was retired from chess back in those days, but when I'd been active back in the early '70s I was a tactical monster with rather limited strategic ability -- maybe an effective playing strength of 1950 USCF at my peak.

It was sort of a match made in heaven:  my tactical ability at chess translated over extremely well.  Go is a very different game, but that part of my brain picked it up very quickly. 

His strategic understanding got poured into one ear and intuitively made perfect sense as well.  (All that talk about form, shape, heavyness and/or lightness, etc. was just crystal clear as I learned it.)  I'm a pretty intuitive type generally, so again I just seemed to have a total flare for it.  I went from complete beginner (maybe 36 kyu +/- though no one starts counting until you hit 10 kyu...) to 8 kyu in 6 months which I'm told was extraordinarily fast.

Eventually my teacher just got too busy to work or play with me very much (and soon thereafter left the company and was then even less accessable), and finding a game of go in L.A. circa 1982 was darn near impossible without driving long distances.  So eventually I just gave up. 

I didn't really realize it at the time, but I probably had the talent to have been a go prodigy if I'd been born at a time and place where that might have been cultivated.  (FWIW, I'm quite certain that I am *NOT* that talented at chess!  Not even close...  It wouldn't matter how hard I worked at it, I'm quite sure I'll never top 2000 USCF...)

Still, because of these experiences I find the chess vs. go question fascinating.  A lot of good points have been made (some less politely than others, I fear...), but ultimately it really comes down to a matter of taste. 

Go is a lot more like pure art (particularly painting).  You start with a blank medium (again a canvas seems most appropriate) and (along with your opponent) you try to paint something beautiful.  Yes it's a competition, but both sides are trying to build something -- and there may or may not be much actual "fighting" along the way.  You can often get a long ways into a go game without much need for getting into concrete variations with both sides operating on intuition and the "right feel" of the moves. 

Chess doesn't really seem to have anything quite analogous to that;  even a closed, strategic game doesn't really have that feel (at least to me).  I also find chess to be extremely artistic and beautiful, but it really is far more concrete from the first move.  And it's overall "feel" is much more like war (which is also an "art" albeit a bloody one...) where conquer and destroy the enemy is the name of the game.

Both are great games and worthy of study and enjoyment.  Peace!

o.o but you can play now and whenever you want, there are lot of good Go servers like KGS, this game is also living a great process of expansion over this side of the world, if you want we can play a few games in KGS ;)

reading this posts someone mentioned "Greek Gift" as a simetry with a Go joseki, the idea was fine, then i remembered "i know greek gift" but i really dont know whats the goal with it, or why is it good (it may be the fact it brack the kings pawn castle, but most of time i dont play it because i dont understand the full potential of the move)

in go a uttegaeshi is a move that involve one or more sacrifices to take a grat avantage of the oponent group by forcing him to capture, i thought "Greek Gift" was something like that, but i still cant see the whole benefit in playing it D:

Wish I could someone to play against /teach me the basics. I think I'd like it. 

Greek Gift is just a name given to the bishop sacrifice Bxh7+ (or Bxh2+ for black) against the castled king position. Typically the idea is to break the king's pawn cover in order to deliver a mate but there's no single common way to continue because it all depends on the particular position. You just have to try to calculate the consequences before playing the sac (here familiarity with some typical attacking techniques like Ng5+Qh5 may help). Often it happens that you cannot make the sacrifice work when you of course should not play it.

Since Greek Gift refers to a single move and joseki to a sequence of moves, don't think there's any comparision.

[COMMENT DELETED] The message editor here really is really bad.  Sheesh...

@ArcadesGriffith:  The Greek Gift Sacrifice is a mating attack against a castled king based on a combination starting with either Bxh7+ or ...Bxh2+:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Greek_gift_sacrifice

Thanks for the invite, but I was young, single and relatively carefree back in 1982.  Today I have a demanding job, a wife, a kid, a Silicon Valley mortgage, ~70 online chess games, and several other word games going.  Go just isn't going to break back into my life.  Like a long lost first love, I'd rather cherish the warm and glowing memories than be reintroduced to the less-than-perfect realities! 

i can ;) we can play in KGS

I just learned to play Go and played a little Go online today. I thought I understood the rules well enough to engage in some basic play, but I ended up getting crushed by my opponents. One thing I don't understand is why there isn't a stalemate-type rule in Go like there is in chess. Even when you can't make a legal move, you still have to forfeit the move. (My opponents forfeited their moves a lot when they were in winning positions, and I don't get that either unless it was to avoid running out of time or because it was like zugzwang in chess, except while winning.)This happened in one game where everywhere I was clicking it read "suicidal move" on the screen, and my opponent messaged me to just click "Pass" to give up the move, even though I couldn't move. Afterwards, the game ended, but my opponent won as they had been beating me before. I also don't understand how it is determined that a game should end in Go besides by running out of time, resignation or in games like the one I played. Do the players just agree to end the game, or can the computer determine it online, and if so, how is that determined?

@awesomechess1729: 

In go, the idea is to surround more territory (unoccupied points) than your opponent.  At the end of the game when the boundaries are firm, there is no point in playing a stone.  If you place it in your own territory you lose a point for filling the point in;  if you place it in your opponent's territory you lose it to capture (giving a point to your opponent).  Both players passing is a tacit agreement between them that the game is over since further moves accomplish nothing. 

Here are few hints for begining Go players.

Don't start with the full-sized board. Most Go servers should have the option to choose 9x9 board. Use it initially. After little while move to 13x13 and only later to 19x19.

It may also be a good idea to first play few games with a teaching variant where you don't have to master all the rules at once, like Atari Go (http://senseis.xmp.net/?AtariGo) although I'm not sure how easy it would be to get such a game on a Go server.

mmm i personally dont recomend to play 9x9 but a few times at beggining, or sometimes for quick funny games, but its so smalls, not even a nikentobi can be played in a good way, at the end it can bring you bad habits, 13x13 is acceptable to get experience, but after 1 or 2 months you must start playing 19x19 to avoid others bad habits, and asking other players for teaching games of any question is a good way to improve, most of Go players are happy in helping other peopple in the learning way :D

Arcades

Is there a Go server that does not require Java? I would rather avoid Java for security issues.

mm i highly recomend KGS (it uses java, but for now need to change security lvl of java to medium) i play there and no virus or any other issue has come from it, but about others servers im not really sure if Tygem need java (Tygem is a very hard asian server, not very recomended to learn there unless you are korean chinese or japanese) about IGS it uses java i think, maybe OGS dont or DGS (DGS = Dragon Go Server uses correspondance gaing as this web)

there is also a web called "flyordie" but its not an official server of Go, its a minigames web, it has Go, chess, poker, pacman, etc, so there are lot of real begginers, but there are olso rude peopple and sand baggers u.u

I can read and write Japanese. Maybe I will try Tygem, thanks.

I play Go on Playok.com.