We all assume he don’t do it again : wink wink :
We all assume Carlsen and Kasparov won't cheat again also: wink wink:
You should probably come up with better examples if you want to compare. Did Magnus cheat? Or did someone else suggest a move without his input or encouragement? Magnus did not ask anyone for help or assistance did he? And after someone made a suggestion, should Magnus unhink or unhear what was said? What were his options?
It's probably also important to note that even though Magnus did nothing to promote or encourage outside assistance he did not accept any money he would have won because of what someone ELSE did. If anything you are providing a good example of a stand up guy and doing the right thing. Quite the opposite of what Hans did.
Like a Pharisee with his nose stuck up in the air thinking he is better than everyone else, you wish to condemn someone for past offenses with no sense of forgiveness. You can see what you want to see. Cheating is cheating regardless of whether it is Carlsen, Kasparov or anyone else.
If you want to put a scarlet C on Niemann’s forehead for the rest of his life with the attitude of “once a cheater always a cheater” then how many lies have you told in your lifetime or taken something that didn’t belong to you? You should be treated as a liar and a thief for the rest of your life if that is how you want to treat Niemann. We are all human and that includes you. Why don’t you say “once an obnoxious drunk always an obnoxious drunk” which one could describe Carlsen as at times when flipping people off on video?
“There is someone I love, even though I don’t approve of what he does. There is someone I accept, though some of his thoughts and actions revolt me. There is someone I forgive, though he hurts the people I love most. That person is me.” C.S. Lewis
Except Hans cheated. Magnus and Kasparov did not. That's the difference.
I would forgive Hans if he never did it again. But what did he do? He did it again. So it's a lot harder this time to forgive. It's going to take a lot longer. Some day, after he's shown he can play honestly we'll see. But for now there are obviously reasons to be skeptical.
The examples you gave in those videos are something every chess player should see. Magnus was given outside assistance, he didn't ask for it or seek it. And again, he did not accept any money from what he would have earned. That is something Hans could learn from. Kasparov also did not cheat. It appears he did take his hand off the piece, which ordinarily completes the move. But taking the hand off and then putting it back on and moving somewhere else isn't against the rules. It's only against the rules IF the opposing player calls it out. When she made her move she acknowledged that Kasparov was OK in what he did. It's her duty to bring the issue up, not Kasparovs. She failed to do that, thus no rule violation occurred. No cheating.
If we are going to invoke whataboutism, at least provide a legitimate example.
Thank you for proving my point.
Well since your point was that Hans cheated, more than once, and Kasparov and Magnus did not, you are welcome.
I'm sure you have lied more than once. There is no telling how many times Kasparov cheated when not on camera. He claims he didn't know he took his hand off. That's about as believable as you have only lied one time.
"One of the most famous touch-move controversies transpired in the Judit Polgar vs. Garry Kasparov game at Linares’1994. An interesting recollection of the events is given in Judit’s “From GM to Top 10” book. There is no universal agreement on what happened there, but a widespread belief is that Garry did release the piece only to pick it up and put the knight on a different square. Judit instantly realized it and looked at the arbiter, but he either hadn’t noticed anything or, according to some theories, was on friendly terms with Kasparov and didn’t enforce the rule on him. Anyway, Polgar must have decided that it is not worth it to mess with Kasparov, who at that time could easily make sure that you would stop getting invitations to top tournaments. She didn’t protest and ended up losing the game. Interestingly enough, some reporters forgot to turn the camera on and recorded this footage, which led to a scandal! Ah, the good old days when there were no live streams…"
https://www.playmagnus.com/en/news/post/the-infamous-touch-move-rule
Kasparov was the most powerful chess player in the world with powerful friends in high places and was nothing more than a bully to a 17 year old girl. How many years before you finally give Hans a break?
Well at least you admit Kasparov didn't cheat. According to your own source no rules violation took place. The touch move rule only becomes enforceable when someone, usually the opponent, points it out and requires intervention. Releasing it, then moving again, in itself is not a rules violation. Since Polgar accepted that what Kasparov did was ok, she went on to move. Maybe she wasn't sure he let go of the piece and didn't wasnt sure what to do. That is her right. But as good as she was it's most certainly likely she knew she could enforce a rules violation IF she thought one took place. She did not. Clearly there is no dispute that there was no rule violation. And maybe Kasparov genuinely didn't think he released the piece. I'll bet even you have been deep in thought during a chess game and became unaware of something else everyone around you noticed right away.
For a violation to occur, it takes 3 things. One, a player releases the piece but then moves it again (which appears to have happened). Two, someone has to observe the action and summon a rules official. And three, the rules official has to make a decision that a violation took place. Of the three things required for this rules violation, two did not take place. So obviously it falls far short of a rules violation.
Please don't make false accusations. While it's obvious Kasparov did not cheat, as evidenced by the video and numerous accounts, that isn't the case with Hans. As I said, I would forgive Hans IF over time he stops cheating. He said before he wouldn't do it again but did it again anyway. I'm sure you can understand why it's going to take longer this time.
, but you know how the old saying goes: If you're not cheating, you're not trying!
We all assume he don’t do it again : wink wink :
We all assume Carlsen and Kasparov won't cheat again also: wink wink:
You should probably come up with better examples if you want to compare. Did Magnus cheat? Or did someone else suggest a move without his input or encouragement? Magnus did not ask anyone for help or assistance did he? And after someone made a suggestion, should Magnus unhink or unhear what was said? What were his options?
It's probably also important to note that even though Magnus did nothing to promote or encourage outside assistance he did not accept any money he would have won because of what someone ELSE did. If anything you are providing a good example of a stand up guy and doing the right thing. Quite the opposite of what Hans did.
Like a Pharisee with his nose stuck up in the air thinking he is better than everyone else, you wish to condemn someone for past offenses with no sense of forgiveness. You can see what you want to see. Cheating is cheating regardless of whether it is Carlsen, Kasparov or anyone else.
If you want to put a scarlet C on Niemann’s forehead for the rest of his life with the attitude of “once a cheater always a cheater” then how many lies have you told in your lifetime or taken something that didn’t belong to you? You should be treated as a liar and a thief for the rest of your life if that is how you want to treat Niemann. We are all human and that includes you. Why don’t you say “once an obnoxious drunk always an obnoxious drunk” which one could describe Carlsen as at times when flipping people off on video?
“There is someone I love, even though I don’t approve of what he does. There is someone I accept, though some of his thoughts and actions revolt me. There is someone I forgive, though he hurts the people I love most. That person is me.” C.S. Lewis
Except Hans cheated. Magnus and Kasparov did not. That's the difference.
I would forgive Hans if he never did it again. But what did he do? He did it again. So it's a lot harder this time to forgive. It's going to take a lot longer. Some day, after he's shown he can play honestly we'll see. But for now there are obviously reasons to be skeptical.
The examples you gave in those videos are something every chess player should see. Magnus was given outside assistance, he didn't ask for it or seek it. And again, he did not accept any money from what he would have earned. That is something Hans could learn from. Kasparov also did not cheat. It appears he did take his hand off the piece, which ordinarily completes the move. But taking the hand off and then putting it back on and moving somewhere else isn't against the rules. It's only against the rules IF the opposing player calls it out. When she made her move she acknowledged that Kasparov was OK in what he did. It's her duty to bring the issue up, not Kasparovs. She failed to do that, thus no rule violation occurred. No cheating.
If we are going to invoke whataboutism, at least provide a legitimate example.
Thank you for proving my point.
Well since your point was that Hans cheated, more than once, and Kasparov and Magnus did not, you are welcome.
I'm sure you have lied more than once. There is no telling how many times Kasparov cheated when not on camera. He claims he didn't know he took his hand off. That's about as believable as you have only lied one time.
"One of the most famous touch-move controversies transpired in the Judit Polgar vs. Garry Kasparov game at Linares’1994. An interesting recollection of the events is given in Judit’s “From GM to Top 10” book. There is no universal agreement on what happened there, but a widespread belief is that Garry did release the piece only to pick it up and put the knight on a different square. Judit instantly realized it and looked at the arbiter, but he either hadn’t noticed anything or, according to some theories, was on friendly terms with Kasparov and didn’t enforce the rule on him. Anyway, Polgar must have decided that it is not worth it to mess with Kasparov, who at that time could easily make sure that you would stop getting invitations to top tournaments. She didn’t protest and ended up losing the game. Interestingly enough, some reporters forgot to turn the camera on and recorded this footage, which led to a scandal! Ah, the good old days when there were no live streams…"
https://www.playmagnus.com/en/news/post/the-infamous-touch-move-rule
Kasparov was the most powerful chess player in the world with powerful friends in high places and was nothing more than a bully to a 17 year old girl. How many years before you finally give Hans a break?