HEY NOOBS! Forget Openings, Study Tactics (The right way)

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kindaspongey
DeirdreSkye wrote:

...The beginners that learn to rely on openings feel helpless even when their opponent does stupid things. 

     I saw a beginner praising the value of opening study and recently made a post asking advice about Scandinavian. After more than 1 year studying openings he is still unable to play 10 common sense moves!

Perhaps GM John Nunn was thinking, in part, about that sort of thing when he wrote (in 2006): "... I feel that the main reasons to buy an opening book are to give a good overview of the opening, and to explain general plans and ideas. ..."
One has to think of opening knowledge as a sometimes helpful aid.

kindaspongey
DeirdreSkye wrote:
kindaspongey wrote:
DeirdreSkye wrote:

...     A basic opening repertoire ... teaches [the beginner] to rely on predetermined moves instead on his thinking. ...

Most of the time, one faces a position with no knowledge of a specific move indicated in a book.

... It's not a matter of what kind of positions one will play. ...

If it is a position where the player has no knowledge of a book move, might not the player become acquainted with the problem of trying to rely on predetermined moves?

kindaspongey
DeirdreSkye wrote:

... a beginner ...  must first learn the basic principles(knowledge) then learn when and why the opening principles don't apply(thinking) and then start creating a very basic opening repertoire(combining knowledge and thinking). ...

Do you have a reason to believe that there are no books that try to help the reader with this sort of thing?

kindaspongey
DeirdreSkye wrote:

… Most omit step 1 and 2 and go to step 3 for several reasons. One of them is that they never play long time control games , the second is , even if they do , they never play them as long time control games(meaning they never put serious thinking) and even if they do , they never analyse them(meaning they never learn anything from their defeats). So a whole , very benefitial process is omited.Then eventually they hit a wall and they wonder why they don't improve.And they start jumping from one opening to the other. Because it's never their fault , it's always the opening's fault.

Sounds like a reason to spread the word about 1 and 2.

kindaspongey
DeirdreSkye wrote:
kindaspongey wrote:
DeirdreSkye wrote:

...The beginners that learn to rely on openings feel helpless even when their opponent does stupid things. 

     I saw a beginner praising the value of opening study and recently made a post asking advice about Scandinavian. After more than 1 year studying openings he is still unable to play 10 common sense moves!

Perhaps GM John Nunn was thinkin, in part, about that sort of thing when he wrote (in 2006): "... I feel that the main reasons to buy an opening book are to give a good overview of the opening, and to explain general plans and ideas. ..."
One has to think of opening knowledge as a sometimes helpful aid.

... Would you expect Nunn , a guy working for a publication saying "you don't need openings". Would he dare to render worthless 80% of the books of the company he is working for?

            The big market is on line amateurs that will be happy if they get 100-200 points all their life.Nunn says what they want to hear. If he told them how difficult chess is , most not only wouldn't buy books they would even stop playing chess.

Are you aware of any titled players coming forward to publish something to denounce the behavior of GM John Nunn? By the way, doesn't the difficulty of chess depend on the level of chess that one aspires to play?

kindaspongey
DeirdreSkye wrote:
kindaspongey wrote:

Are you aware of any titled players coming forward to publish something to denounce the behavior of GM John Nunn? 

   Yes I do , I know good teachers that reject similar quotes. If you ever decide to  study chess seriously , you will too(and we both know it's too late for that).

Did you notice the word, "publish", in my question?

Chesslover0_0
torrubirubi wrote:

This Chesslover have an aggressive tone that I don’t like so much. He is talking likemhe would be a rather strong and experienced player and likemhe would have done a lot of „research“ in Chess.

Well, I checked his profile and I was surprised to see that he is a beginner. Most of the time he is playing bullet against other beginners, and his openings are just ridiculous.

You know what? Go on telling people rated 500 points higher than you that study openings are not relevant, and go on playing bullet most part of the time. You will never improve doing this, of course, but who cares, right? And I am going to unfollow this thread, yImhavembettermthingsmtomdo with my time.

At least I'm not harassing people on the post thinking I'm right,you see here is the thing,my rating may be low but this is merely online so you have no idea of what I'm capable of until you play me in a game of Chess.  Do NOT worry about my rating or try and sit there and judge me with your trolling self.  

I challenged you to do research so that you can in the process of doing that,prove yourself wrong,you have yet to do that,so if I were you I would not judge others based on rating.  I might have forgotten more about the game then you ever knew,clearly studying Openings for beginners is simply not profitable,so yeah instead of harassing us on a Chess Forum,why don't you get off your a$$ and do some RESEARCH!  

As far as me being belligerent,,yo look at how you came at me,you've been harassing me and somewhat bullying me,I said and asked you to drop it,my response was to MikeZeggelaar,not you,so WHY are you still quoting me with your garbage and nonsense,so you say "yImhavembettermthingsmtomdo with my time." uh what???,lol Yeah right,so before you talk about someone and try and insult them based on what you think you know about them,son I think you should go to English Grammar school and hey if you wanna unfollow the thread,you'll do us all a favor,so yeah,that's all I gotta say to you.  I asked you to drop it,you wouldn't drop it,you got nothing to talk about,you didn't do what I asked you to do did you? You didn't do the research why not? because you're afraid you WILL in fact be proven wrong,....so yeah you and I got nothing to talk about until that research gets done.  

So my advice to you sir would be to A) Stop harassing people on Chess forums when they don't agree with you B) Learn how to speak proper English and C ) Learn to let things go when people tell you "let's agree to disagree and let things go.   I said it once and I'll say it again,I wasn't talking to you but I am now since you called my name again by quoting me,so uhm yeah ..............have a good day,have a wonderful time since you have so much " Imhavembettermthingsmtomdo with my time" ....Bahahahaha! 

kindaspongey
Chesslover0_0 wrote:

… I challenged you to do research so that you can in the process of doing that,prove yourself wrong, ...

Why do you feel that you can say what others would find out from research?

kindaspongey
Chesslover0_0 wrote:

… clearly studying Openings for beginners is simply not profitable, ...

Perhaps of interest to look at the table of contents in the book sample here:

http://www.gambitbooks.com/pdfs/A_Complete_Chess_Course.pdf

kindaspongey
DeirdreSkye wrote:
kindaspongey wrote:
Chesslover0_0 wrote:

… clearly studying Openings for beginners is simply not profitable, ...

Perhaps of interest to look at the table of contents in the book sample here:

http://www.gambitbooks.com/pdfs/A_Complete_Chess_Course.pdf

… Is this the new book you are trying to sell? …

I am not selling anything.

kindaspongey
DeirdreSkye  wrote:

… May I assume we will see it often next to Tamburo's book?

Not correctly.

Chesslover0_0
kindaspongey wrote:
Chesslover0_0 wrote:

… I challenged you to do research so that you can in the process of doing that,prove yourself wrong, ...

Why do you feel that you can say what others would find out from research?

What kind of question is this? Why do I feel that I can say what others would find out from research? I don't even understand that,do the research and find out what most experts and Chess teachers would tell beginners to focus on,you have yet to do this,so yeah we don't have anything to talk about until you do the research yourself. 

Oh and by the way I've done the research so I'm basically coming here telling you what they say,or shall I do the research for you and show you several sources.  Are you too lazy to do it or are you afraid that I'm right? I don't get it.   Furthermore I thought you had better things to do then to troll this forum :'(  

Chesslover0_0
DeirdreSkye wrote:
kindaspongey wrote:
Chesslover0_0 wrote:

… clearly studying Openings for beginners is simply not profitable, ...

Perhaps of interest to look at the table of contents in the book sample here:

http://www.gambitbooks.com/pdfs/A_Complete_Chess_Course.pdf

lol , where do you find them?

This guy is a 2028 rated guy. 

Is this the new book you are trying to sell?

May I assume we will see it often next to Tamburo's book?

DeirdreSkye this is his version of research,he thinks that I'm supposed to be impressed by reading a book sample I guess.   I asked him to do research into the subject instead of asking me 243 questions about this and questioning my reasoning and logic,uhm yeah my responses are based on sound reasoning and logic and more importantly based on research and not just some lame book sample.  

I have told him what the experts say and I have told him and others here why it's being said but he won't accept it and wants to continue to argue his point,so just let him go on and on.  

kindaspongey
Chesslover0_0 wrote:
kindaspongey wrote:
Chesslover0_0 wrote:

… I challenged you to do research so that you can in the process of doing that,prove yourself wrong, ...

Why do you feel that you can say what others would find out from research?

… do the research and find out what most experts and Chess teachers would tell beginners to focus on, ...

Does "focus" mean to ignore everything else?

Chesslover0_0
kindaspongey wrote:
Chesslover0_0 wrote:
kindaspongey wrote:
Chesslover0_0 wrote:

… I challenged you to do research so that you can in the process of doing that,prove yourself wrong, ...

Why do you feel that you can say what others would find out from research?

… do the research and find out what most experts and Chess teachers would tell beginners to focus on, ...

Does "focus" mean to ignore everything else?

*sighs* ......Are you going to question everything we say here? 

What does the word focus mean to you? I'll answer your question though,the answer is NO,BUT yes beginners should FOCUS on tactics and endgames,reason: Because it will help their Chess more then anything else.  

Not once did I say totally ignore openings,middle game themes,strategy and the like,where can you quote that I said that,I said that it is more beneficial for beginners to study tactics and endgames rather then openings,how many times must I repeat myself?  Opening study and strategy is ONLY useful at the higher levels of Chess,again,DO YOUR DAMN RESEARCH! Why is it that you refuse to do that????? or are you just trolling,let me know because if you are,I won't be responding to you any more.  I'm not here to entertain you,I thought we were here to talk about Chess. 

kindaspongey
Chesslover0_0 wrote:
kindaspongey wrote:
Chesslover0_0 wrote:

… I challenged you to do research so that you can in the process of doing that,prove yourself wrong, ...

Why do you feel that you can say what others would find out from research?

… Oh and by the way I've done the research so I'm basically coming here telling you what they say,or shall I do the research for you and show you several sources. ...

So far, I do not remember seeing anything but a Capablanca quote.

kindaspongey
Chesslover0_0 wrote:
DeirdreSkye wrote:
kindaspongey wrote:
Chesslover0_0 wrote:

… clearly studying Openings for beginners is simply not profitable, ...

Perhaps of interest to look at the table of contents in the book sample here:

http://www.gambitbooks.com/pdfs/A_Complete_Chess_Course.pdf

… This guy is a 2028 rated guy. …

... my responses are based on sound reasoning and logic and more importantly based on research and …

Do you have an estimate of the number of days that are likely to go by without the appearance of more specifics from your research?

kindaspongey
Chesslover0_0 wrote:
kindaspongey wrote:
Chesslover0_0 wrote:
kindaspongey wrote:
Chesslover0_0 wrote:

… I challenged you to do research so that you can in the process of doing that,prove yourself wrong, ...

Why do you feel that you can say what others would find out from research?

… do the research and find out what most experts and Chess teachers would tell beginners to focus on, ...

Does "focus" mean to ignore everything else?

... I'll answer your question though,the answer is NO, ...

So, an instruction to focus on tactics and endgames is not necessarily an instruction to ignore other possible activites?

kindaspongey
Chesslover0_0 wrote:
kindaspongey wrote:
Chesslover0_0 wrote:
kindaspongey wrote:
Chesslover0_0 wrote:

… I challenged you to do research so that you can in the process of doing that,prove yourself wrong, ...

Why do you feel that you can say what others would find out from research?

… do the research and find out what most experts and Chess teachers would tell beginners to focus on, ...

Does "focus" mean to ignore everything else?

... Not once did I say totally ignore openings,middle game themes,strategy and the like,where can you quote that I said that, ...

Do you see a specific sentence where I claimed that you did say that?

kindaspongey
Chesslover0_0 wrote:

... Opening study and strategy is ONLY useful at the higher levels of Chess,again, ...

"... This book is the first volume in a series of manuals designed for players who are building the foundations of their chess knowledge. The reader will receive the necessary basic knowledge in six areas of the game - tactcs, positional play, strategy, the calculation of variations, the opening and the endgame. ... To make the book entertaining and varied, I have mixed up these different areas, ..." - GM Artur Yusupov