HEY NOOBS! Forget Openings, Study Tactics (The right way)

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Encephalocele



Hopefully this goes through alright, if not I'll delete it if possible, but I noticed you said you are tired of memorizing openings. How far do you memorize to play 5. .. a6, and how deep are you memorizing to obtain the position I have in this reply?

sndeww

it didn't go through

Encephalocele
SNUDOO wrote:

it didn't go through

 

Thank you!! I think I fixed it!

 

Monster_Melons

I don't have much experience playing c5 in the third move, so I was not aware of everything that could happen afterwards. It seems like that move leads to various opening traps that I was not aware of.

Encephalocele

And why didn't you play a5 at the first sight of b4?

Monster_Melons

I didn't think about that before afterwards. Mistakes are made in the opening when you don't know the opening moves. My opponents don't make similar mistakes because they know the moves.

sndeww

a4 is a common idea in queens gambit - like positions.

sndeww

idea is to undermine support.

sndeww

(by the way, I don't play the QG and I know this.)

Rukdropov

Maybe its a misunderstanding of what we mean by Openings. Opening study is deep understanding of the plans and specific move orders along with typical tactical motifs. When you are below 2000 (OTB) all you need is opening PRINCIPLES, a few model games, and knowing the traps. The rest is learning how to play chess - tactics, positional motifs, strategy, standard middlegame structure, standard endgames and later complex endgame. Learning how to calculate accurately and evaluate. This is the important stuff - until you have all that - deep opening study is a waste of effort and utterly misdirected. That game published where the guy was lost after 6 moves has nothing to do with the opening - they guy simply can't play chess to a decent standard. Learning some opening moves just means he survives a few more moves and then gets crushed. What's the point of that? IM Phren and everyone is saying learn to play 'chess' - when you do that opening principles will guide you to playable middlegames. If you're say 1400 and want to beat 1600 - they way to do it is learn to play chess not openings. Once again all you need is opening principles - seriously that;s it.

pfren

Here is an example of "opening gone wrong" but this having nothing to do with the outcome of the game.

 

 

- The whole line with 5...e5 is still played at top level, but it is not something one should make a habbit, regardless of what engines claim: White has very annoying pressure for the (likely temporary) loss of a pawn, and Valeri (a very strong player) got a very promising position by just playing simple moves.

- 13...Nd5 is in Adorjan terms "a bright idea that loses". When playing it, I have calculated and evaluated the exchange sacrifice at move 18, and assumed that Black has enough positional compensation if white accepts the gift. Valeri thought the same thing, and the annotation line shows what we have both missed- a counter exchange sacrifice which leaves Black in a position where he is probably lost (although it is far from easy).

- After rejecting the exchange sacrifice, Black was just fine, and never felt any real danger till the end of the game.

 

To sum it up, the very speculative opening had nothing to do with the game outcome, and this is what happens almost in every chess game- probably excluding high level correspondence chess and 2700+ encounters, where the players usually have worked out even the most subtle detail of their opening experiment.

It is quite apparent that what counts well above everything else is finding practical soutions to your problems, and puttting some problems to your opponent- and this is achieved not by opening study, but rather by good tactical calculations and objective positional evaluations. And you will not learn them by studying opening manuals, this is absolutely certain.

Encephalocele
See This is what I mean. All you did was make an excuse instead of accept that you are missing key ideas in chess as a whole. The move a5 in these types of structures are an automatic move. It's not really a "Well mistakes happen" kind of issue. Someone will see that move associated with that structure instantly when you have some form of chess training. 
 
The game pfren posted was a great one. I would take notes if I were you. You don't see it often an IM will post in a post like this with analysis like he did.
Monster_Melons wrote:

I didn't think about that before afterwards. Mistakes are made in the opening when you don't know the opening moves. My opponents don't make similar mistakes because they know the moves.

 

Monster_Melons

I stumbled across an interesting article. International Master Valeri Lilov explains why a player should study chess openings regardless of their rating:

https://www.ichess.net/blog/6-reasons-study-chess-openings/

Rukdropov

Hey go right ahead and just study openings. I mean it couldn't possibly be a bunch of IMs and GMs trying to sell you their opening products. Noooooo of course not.  It absolutely must be genuine advice to help your game. I guess Capablanca got it wrong. I mean what did he know. Right?

sndeww

I don't see a reason why NOT to study openings... and when I mean study I don't mean "buy the lates najdorf/dragon book and memorize 600 pages of theory".

Monster_Melons

- The move a5 in these types of structures are an automatic move. Someone will see that move associated with that structure instantly when you have some form of chess training.

I think it's interesting what you say about that pawn structure. The point is that this structure could pop up anywhere, not just in this opening. It's a good thing to notice.

 

Monster_Melons

You're way too suspicious, Rukdropov. I'm sure he wouldn't say what he said if he didn't mean it. Besides, he could teach anything from positions to end games if he wanted to. I also think the vast majority of chess players would agree with him.

Rukdropov

Hi Snudoo. As mentioned it depends what you mean by study openings. The general point here is that there is a strong tendency for club players to focus on improving their knowledge of openings as their primary method of advancing their rating. The problem is, even if those does improve short term results, it is not the best method if improving their skill. For example let's say you are 1600 and want to regularly beat 1800 level players. Is learning openings the best way to do this? No! The best way to know standard endgames, complex endgames, general positional play, general strategic play, tactics and calculation, model games from great players. Most people will struggle to do the above if they are working as there is only so many available hours in the day. So the ultimate question is what is the BEST way to use your limited time. I should say it does depend on your personal goals. Maybe you just want to get +.5 from the opening and start getting outplayed by the 1800. Doesn't sound like fun.  I would say IM pfren is giving good advice. So study openings if you want - just don;'t waste too much time on it. If you insist on openings as a primary route to improvement, concentrate on 25 model (complete) games which will teach you the ideas and plans. In others at least turn opening study into something uselful. What most do is learn something like the Albin Counter Gambit. Doesn't do you any good in the long run. The time spend working on chess should lay the foundation for improvement and use time efficiently. 

 

Rukdropov

The problem most club players have is their willingness to sacrifice longer term improvement for short term temporary results. I understand the temptation, but I think it's just a mistake. Of course I could just give up explaining this and start selling courses on how to smash White with Black in 20 moves every time with my super secret star novelty. After all it does seem what the market wants .... happy.png

Cornfed
chamo2074 wrote:
Cornfed a écrit :

Advice from someone rated....1300 or so...buyer beware.

Higher rated players have claimed that they have never seen 1300's play as much as me, and this isn't chess knowledge this is an obvious answer

I don't have a clue what you are talking about.