How do you feel about chess?

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Pat_Zerr

How do I feel about chess?  With my fingers.

Atos
trysts wrote:
Atos wrote:


Well, but whether the causes are genetic or organic or environmental, the observable symptoms are behavioural. (Introspective insights of the patient might be of some interest also but they are hardly very reliable.) Knowing the causes of schizophrenia is not essential to diagnosing it.

You are right that there is no meta-cultural definition of mental disease but, there is some reason to think that a person who behaves in ways that strongly defy the expectations of the culture they are part of, is mentally ill. 


I don't agree with you here, as I very strongly find the expectations of this society quite mad, and I hope I behave in a way that comports this feeling. I know, for instance, that this society wishes to supress ideas and behaviour which it finds uncomfortable, and therefore would call people mad for merely thinking for themselves, and doing what they wish. It is as much, if not more, the fault of the culture, and not the behaviour of the individual, which breeds claims of madness.


I agree in part, at least I agree that the cultural / societal norms cannot be accepted as an absolute standard. There is a caveat that I find non-conformity more convincing when it is not immediately obvious or blatant, if you understand what I mean.

electricpawn

All this talk about societal norms and the genetic links to insanity misses the point a little. Where mental health issues are involved, issues that necessarily overlap with issues that pertain to criminal behaviour, people with power will use the mental health and criminal infrastrucure to achieve their means. That's why it's important to fight to maintain legal protections for our civil liberties. If you find this country to be too restrictive with regard to personal expression, which are better? You're really down to a small number of countries. The argument might be better stated as what's the nature of government, anad how does a society define and react to aberant behaviour. Read The Trial or The Penal Colony by Franz Kafka, or an account of how disdents are treated in totalitarian regimes like A Day in the Life of Ivan Desinovich by Aleksandr Solzhenitsyn and see if you still think you are being treated like an enemy of the stsate.

Atos

Hm... The Trial and The Penal Colony though are not intended to be documentary descriptions of actual totalitarian societies but metaphorical representations thereof, so I am not sure that this makes your point.

DrSpudnik

Only really great players are in danger of going nuts. We're all safe here.

wishiwonthatone

I can't communicate on the level of you all regarding sanity and societal norms, except to say the topic makes me uncomfortable. I don't feel or act to "normal" so much so some of the implications are rather threatening.

MJStallard

Just to clarify, there is no doubt the environment can "trigger" mental disorders, but "trigger" and "cause" are very different ("trigger" means when something causes a an existing problem to come forward, regardless of chemical imbalance).  Research seems to be leaning heavily toward brain chemistry as being a root for TRUE mental disorders.  Some have sighted schizophrenia, so I will use it as an example.  When a person has this type of mental disorder, using an MRI, you can see brain activity that is abnormal, however, the symptoms, hearing/seeing/experiencing things that aren't happening in reality (which society would deem madness) are correctable with the application of medications.  Another disorder to compare it to is DID (Dissociative Identity Disorder (commonly known as Multiple Personality Disorder)) has these same symptoms but develop due to repetitive trauma and not a genetic disorder.

Both are "triggered" but on the one hand you have a chemical imbalance in the brain, the other a result of trauma. Schizophrenia can be seen in an MRI in the prefrontal cortex and the temporal lobes, DID does not do this, and yet both are seen as "insane" in this society (by the way DID and PTSD can be treated with medication but both can be controlled through therapy and diligence of mind after confronting the disorder with a trained professional, a chemical imbalance cannot be so treated and require medication (which would imply aberrant behavior/beliefs do not signify insanity necessarily).

The point I make with this is if social norms dictate insanity than by other social norms we are all insane. 

Trysts said "But, seriously, madness can be cultural, it doesn't have to be genetic." but their is a difference between a society that understands mental disorders and one that does NOT understand mental disorders and simply sees the "different" as crazy.

Nick Young5 said "Prolonged solitary confinement, for example, can cause severe mental problems (madness if you will) in those with apparently no genetic disorders, such as schizophrenia."  And I mean no offense in this statement (and I understand you are not saying solitary confinement causes scizophrenia but the way it is worded does leave a little to interpretation), this type of thinking is a problem. A patient who isolates (confines themselves away from others) can experience higher rises in the stress hormones (such as cortisol), can develop an altered immune system, higher blood pressure, and (worst of all) increased risk of depression and sleep problems which causes the patient to isolate even more, creating a circluar problem ("I isolate because I am lonely, I am lonely because I isolate").

Chess causes many of us to isolate as we seek a deeper connection to the game and our own prowess, which can cause problems but a mentally healthy person will do things in moderation and hold their sanity (one reason I respect Kasparov so much for his physical exercise while playing).  A person who has a pre-existing mental disorder (as some of our chess hero's have had) and isolate often unravel.

I hope that wasn't to rambling and makes sense to everyone.

Just my 2 cents (and forgive my post lengths, I know this is a chess forum and not a therapist page, lol. I'm just not a succinct as you guys are). I'll shut up now and go back to getting my brains beat out on the board. LaughingSealed

DrSpudnik
wishiwonthatone wrote:

I can't communicate on the level of you all regarding sanity and societal norms, except to say the topic makes me uncomfortable. I don't feel or act to "normal" so much so some of the implications are rather threatening.


 I act normal all the time. So far no one has caught on.

electricpawn
Atos wrote:

Hm... The Trial and The Penal Colony though are not intended to be documentary descriptions of actual totalitarian societies but metaphorical representations thereof, so I am not sure that this makes your point.


In a recent study based on Kafka’s office writings,[2]Reza Banakar points out that many of Kafka’s descriptions of law and legality are often treated as metaphors for things other than law, but also are worthy of examination as a particular concept of law and legality which operates paradoxically as an integral part of the human condition under modernity.[3] Josef K. and his inexplicable experience of the law in The Trial were, for example, born out of an actual legal case in which Kafka was involved.[3

xtophr1
Yes, I hate it.  But this is precisely the reason I joined.  I feel that I should like it and I even want to, so I have every intention of learning. I learned most of the basic rules at about 8 or so, but never developed any tactics.  My dad was a very focused engineer and would beat me quite easily, even though I'm sure that he was being easy on me.  I played with friends but never progressed, so I just gave it up at about 10. I am now 43 and a friend has talked me into trying it again.  I have still never won a game, but I hope to learn something here. But, yep...  I still hate chess.
Conflagration_Planet
xtophr1 wrote:
Yes, I hate it.  But this is precisely the reason I joined.  I feel that I should like it and I even want to, so I have every intention of learning. I learned most of the basic rules at about 8 or so, but never developed any tactics.  My dad was a very focused engineer and would beat me quite easily, even though I'm sure that he was being easy on me.  I played with friends but never progressed, so I just gave it up at about 10. I am now 43 and a friend has talked me into trying it again.  I have still never won a game, but I hope to learn something here. But, yep...  I still hate chess.

 Me too.

TheCabal
xtophr1 wrote:
Yes, I hate it.  But this is precisely the reason I joined.  I feel that I should like it and I even want to, so I have every intention of learning. I learned most of the basic rules at about 8 or so, but never developed any tactics.  My dad was a very focused engineer and would beat me quite easily, even though I'm sure that he was being easy on me.  I played with friends but never progressed, so I just gave it up at about 10. I am now 43 and a friend has talked me into trying it again.  I have still never won a game, but I hope to learn something here. But, yep...  I still hate chess.

 This could change if you would buy Ubisoft's Chessmaster 12 "The Art of Learning". Do the long interactive tutorials there (especially Josh Waitzkins tutorial. The Art of Learning is actually his book) and you will have much fun learning all you need.

strg

I feel like chess helps to discover more about who you are and how one thinks about things and how one approaches problems and their effective thought processes when approaching things like figuring out how to play and win in chess.  Recently as I was playing chess I realized that I am a dynamic thinker and that I like to solve problems through dynamic processes of thought and action and that I could apply this sort of thing to life as well.  Its quite interesting the different ways that people approach this problem of chess..it says a lot about yourself.

antioxidant

for me ,chess is accomplishment,when i win ihave accomplish something by earning  points as a win but when i losea game i lose pointsbut there is no more worthwhile activity for my mind than playing chess and not to remain idle in thinking.

baddogno

It may not be the healthiest addiction, but it is way better for you than gambling or substance abuse.  Don't ask how I know.Wink  Of course if there were a pub chess club nearbye......

xtophr1
strg wrote:

I feel like chess helps to discover more about who you are and how one thinks about things and how one approaches problems and their effective thought processes when approaching things like figuring out how to play and win in chess.  Recently as I was playing chess I realized that I am a dynamic thinker and that I like to solve problems through dynamic processes of thought and action and that I could apply this sort of thing to life as well.  Its quite interesting the different ways that people approach this problem of chess..it says a lot about yourself.


This is one of the distressing realizations that I have made.  My life so far is exactly like my chess game;  I have no strategy or moves, so I opt out and do not participate.  I hate that about my life, so I am hoping to learn more about the game because it is said that the lessons learned in chess are transferred to your own life.

eddiewsox

I don't think your chess game has anything to do with your personality or your life, it's just a game. When I am playing well i really like chess, when I am in a slump, I start hating it, but I always come back for more.

xtophr1
I respectfully disagree.
eddiewsox

Just don't blunder.

xtophr1
My point exactly, deacon21. Easier said than done.