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How is this possible?

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e4nf3

I seem to run into this a lot.

Someone plays around 800 on tactical problems, maybe 1000 or so on standard play or blitz. But, for online they are 1600 to 1800.

Is this credible?

AndyClifton

Okay, so look at my figures and tell me what you think. Smile

waffllemaster

Your live ratings aren't established / current.

e4nf3

You are really quite good. But a very slow thinker?

AndyClifton

Or perhaps I'm really very slow...

e4nf3

I think I already said that.

e4nf3

I'll tell you what impreses me. You have a 2363 tactical training rating. That's top drawer. And, you can't be slow to get that.

AndyClifton
e4nf3 wrote:

 

I have a few other theories, in regard to you...

Yeah, everybody does.  I wonder why people seem to feel the need to "explain" me...the explanation is really pretty simple:  I'm just a big puppet head who talks kinda like Jimmy Carter. Smile

e4nf3

Your situation is the reverse of what I asked about in the OP. A 2000+ tactical rating is one thing (a mighty good one...you are to be commended...lol).

But an 800 tactical rating...playing like an A? That's the question. See?

ChessSponge

You can use databases in online chess. It isn't simply a chess player's ability in online chess, it is also how well they use databases.

 

I would expect everyone's online rating to be higher than their live rating.

AndyClifton
ChessSponge wrote:

 

I would expect everyone's online rating to be higher than their live rating.

That's never made sense to me at all.  Since everyone is being "graded on the curve" (so to speak), I would think everybody's rating should be the same.  Unless of course some people put a lot more effort into their online games than others.

Really you'd think roughly half of the people would have higher blitz ratings and the other half would have higher online ratings.

I used to have the same puzzlement regarding blitz/standard discrepancies on ICC (and still do).

ChessSponge
AndyClifton wrote:
ChessSponge wrote:

 

I would expect everyone's online rating to be higher than their live rating.

That's never made sense to me at all.  Since everyone is being "graded on the curve" (so to speak), I would think everybody's rating should be the same.  Unless of course some people put a lot more effort into their online games than others.

Really you'd think roughly half of the people would have higher blitz ratings and the other half would have higher online ratings.

I used to have the same puzzlement regarding blitz/standard discrepancies on ICC (and still do).

For the simple fact that people show up to the site, play a few games and then leave the site. New people typically don't know you can use databases/analysis boards with online chess so they're easier to beat.

 

Only a certain percentage stays around for a long time. So for those people their online ratings should always be higher than their live ratings.

AndyClifton

Hm...maybe.  But as I say, it also tends to occur in ICC ratings.

e4nf3

Well, here is one thing I've noticed about online...maybe a few things...

When I've played OTB, blunder...blunder and even blunder is the order of the day for players, let's say under 1500 in particular.

Online? A 1200, 1300 player...relatively very few blunders. Of course, the database, the analysis board, the ability to take 3 days (or whatever) per move...you can even flip the board around and view from the opponent's perspective. So...that explains much.

Yet, the database...I find it irrelevant. I like most of all to play rapid, 15 minute games and I'm 1500 - 1700. Some days I get the bear. Other days, the bear gets me. But, where I'm at...not too hot and not too cold...I'm not a stranger to opening play. And, the tendency is to favor just several variations and play by function...not so much memorization. So, the database? Eh...I don't need it.

Besides, beginners...who really can use the databases for better play, are not going to keep that level of play up in mid and end games. So, they are going to lose that initial boost.

Then there is the mid game...the tactical stuff starts to really come about. How does someone with a tactical training rating of 800, even with the slow play and the analysis board, not get "crushed"?

ChessSponge
e4nf3 wrote:

Well, here is one thing I've noticed about online...maybe a few things...

When I've played OTB, blunder...blunder and even blunder is the order of the day for players, let's say under 1500 in particular.

Online? A 1200, 1300 player...relatively very few blunders. Of course, the database, the analysis board, the ability to take 3 days (or whatever) per move...you can even flip the board around and view from the opponent's perspective. So...that explains much.

Yet, the database...I find it irrelevant. I like most of all to play rapid, 15 minute games and I'm 1500 - 1700. Some days I get the bear. Other days, the bear gets me. But, where I'm at...not too hot and not too cold...I'm not a stranger to opening play. And, the tendency is to favor just several variations and play by function...not so much memorization. So, the database? Eh...I don't need it.

Besides, beginners...who really can use the databases for better play, are not going to keep that level of play up in mid and end games. So, they are going to lose that initial boost.

Then there is the mid game...the tactical stuff starts to really come about. How does someone with a tactical training rating of 800, even with the slow play and the analysis board, not get "crushed"?


If you get a good database with a good programming for sorting through it all. You can easily pull moves from the database for mid and even end game positions. A player could get through a lot of the game before having to figure out the position on their own.

 

At master levels it wouldn't be so easy of course but in those mid rating ranges it could make a very big difference.

e4nf3

You know, I wasn't aware that "pull moves from the database for mid and even end game positions". I'll have to look into that.

ChessSponge
e4nf3 wrote:

You know, I wasn't aware that "pull moves from the database for mid and even end game positions". I'll have to look into that.

I find that when it shows x number of games have been played in a certain position and white has won y% while black has won z%...not much help for me. Especially if the number of games were a small quantity.

Also, do this...37%...do that 35%...all based on statistics of that particular move in that particular situation. Eh... There are also a lot of variables with all the future candidate moves.

It is a lot of options, a lot of options that won't hang pieces. That is why someone who has 800 tactics can play so much better in online chess and not just give away material.

e4nf3

Yes, I certainly agree. That's why I'm seeing far less blundering than in real life. Yet, some things are inexplicable.

e4nf3

Well, I just resigned a game to a fellow who:

Tactics 681

Bullet 858

Blitz 1047

Online 1771

...and I am left with the nagging thought:

How is this possible?

e4nf3

Yeah but you've got a tactical rating of around 1500.

Someone with an 800-900 tactical rating playing like an ace?

Hard to fathom.