How much of chess is luck?

new

Wow great conversation...

Why???

I did not mean 'CONVERSATION' to be taken as if you people were talking ......

I meant it in the sense of chatting not face to face talking...

Bye.

Here is a short description of two OTB games I've played in recent years:

1. We are not even 10 moves into the opening when my opponent's cell phone starts ringing - he forgot to switch it off. According to tourney rules the game is over, I win.

2. We are not even 10 moves into the opening when my opponent hangs his knight and resigns some 15 moves later without much fight. I was just doing my normal development routine and didn't set any traps, that was unprovoked. He was 1600, some 100 points below me, but 1600 players don't routinely hang their minor pieces in the first 10 moves.

For me both cases are a clear manifestation of luck.

At first, I was not going to bother further explaining things to someone closed minded like you.  Why waste the time and effort?  You cannot really listen to other people much less understand their ideas.

But then I thought of others who read this thread, like Benji_min, whose startling and profound idea of actually statistically measuring and quantifying luck could possibly be done.  So for people like him and others, I will explain.

From Dictionary.com = opposite. ... contrary or radically different in some respect common to both, as in nature, qualities, direction, result, or significance ...

The respect common to both is their factor in determining the outcome of a game.  They are contrary in that one factor is within the control of the players while the other is not.

I would say those are two great examples of NOT luck. Luck would be if he turned off his phone, and then by some strange electrical interference his phone turned back on without his knowledge. Luck would be if on move 10 he moved his knight to a square he did not intend because of a stroke, heart attack, or some other unforeseen medical event like a seizure. 

Ignoring the rules and leaving his phone on is not luck since it was his choice to do so. Ignoring the good option for where to put his knight is not luck, since it was his choice to put it in a bad place. Bad decisions are almost always caused by being unprepared, not luck.

We differ on the definition of luck.  I do not see it as “random chance intervening.”

I consider inspiration on the first time to be lucky.  After that, with memory, it becomes a learned skill by the player via experience, not Books, etc.  Getting an “aha” moment at the right time is not something that can be manufactured on the spot.  It can be helped along by physical exercise, good nutrition, enough sleep, etc.  So many times a player will get the “aha” moment and realize what she should have done after the game.  Too late.  But then if the player learns from their mistakes, then they acquire more skill for future games.

Skill, to me, is a learned thing from others or past experience.  Skills are acquired.  If you differ in your definitions from me, then that would explain much of our disagreements.

What is your exact definition of skill?

Have you read my superstrong game? You have to read that because you claim that I am not strong enough to understand Morphy. Read it,and tell me how impressed you are.Or dont you understand chess?

So what you're saying is getting laid is like getting lucky in chess

This topic pops about about once a year it seems.

I didn't want to post because it's always the same stuff over and over.

My preferred succinct answer to the topic is:

The rules of chess describe a game with no luck.

But whenever humans play it there is some luck involved.

The easiest example is in tournament play when certain pairings and colors are necessarily chosen randomly, but there is also some luck during the game itself.

To me both wins appear as a result of random, unpredictable and favourable events. I don't know what to say... To me it's luck.

Maybe we have and know that there is not a lot of luck is involved in chess. All things considering, it comes more down to knowledge, experience, and general ability to apply those things. Luck should never be counted on as part of your plan. 

Anyone who thinks chess is largely luck, sucks at chess. You might as well be a gambler if you are trusting that it's about luck.

World champions are not lucky that consistently, they are doing the right things consistently to be world champions.

My most general plan in every game is to wait for opponent's mistakes to come and then to take advantage of them. I am waiting for some random events to happen while doing my best to play good moves myself. Yes, I can safely say that luck is part of my plan.

Then you still suck at chess. What happens if they out play you? They don't make those mistakes and instead you do? Does that mean they got lucky? or were you unlucky? 

Good players put others in positions that make mistakes possible. It's fine to wait on a mistake, but don't play for that. Play good chess that builds the pressure and keeps your plans working. Everyone makes mistakes in chess, its not a matter of luck when it happens most times. it's a poor choice.

You can build pressure as much as you want, opponent’s mistakes are still random events.