How much should you know?

Just wondering, for a good player (I'd say around 2000+ USCF), how much theory do you know or should you know. About how many moves deep?

Well, I'm not at that level, but I think I can answer your question.

 

It completely depends.

 

Opening theory?  One should know as many moves as are part of the theory for each particular opening and stay abreast of modern lines.

 

Calculation?  As many moves as it takes to be sure that your sequence works(or that your opponent's doesn't).  This can be many moves with multiple variations or simply one move.  Some positions call for intense calculation.  Sometimes the right move is so obvious that to calculate is a waste of time.

 

Endgame theory?  As many moves as it takes.  Sometimes many, sometimes one(do you see a pattern forming?).

 

Basically, there's no single answer to your question.  It's always dependent upon the position. 

First step to getting a good rating is to let go of opening and focus on fundamentals. It's like Bobby Fischer himself said, basically you want to learn ideas, not moves. When you learn the ideas of chess, what you are trying to accomplish, then the opening moves will come quickly because they will make sense. If I tell you, 'pawn e4', you may not remember that. But, if I tell you, 'I move my pawn to e4 because it fights for control over the centre of the board so I can have and easier path to the opponents king', you will likely remember the later because it is linked to meaning. Don't just ape the Masters, get your fundamentals down so you can discover moves on your own. It is when we have the requisite knowledge to create that we truly have skill.

I think you missed the question, Munchies.  While that is good advice, the 2000+ rated players needs to know modern opening lines.

Your goal is to be 2000 (or better) uscf ? Whats your current otb rating?  As for openings, you should study the openings you play/meet most and specialize in them. If you dont play 1e4 as white and dont play the french as black against 1e4 then its a waste of time to study the french defense.

I understand what everyone is saying, but that's not what I'm asking. For openings that I will commonly be facing, what is a good approximation of the average moves deep you should know? (I'm aware that it depends)

If you have that rating, then you already know everything you need to know.

silentfilmstar13 wrote: I think you missed the question, Munchies.  While that is good advice, the 2000+ rated players needs to know modern opening lines.

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Thank you for clarifying peoples statements in every forum you take part in, it's very productive! It makes me want to quit posting whenever I see your name.

Back to the original posters question though. It varies in each opening how many moves you need to learn. Each opening is going to have what they call a tabia, or a sort of 'start position' in the opening. From each tabia, the theory battles begin, with each side trying to find the best line and possibly improve on the current standard ideas, or theory. If you concentrate solely on finding a number value to assign to opening, like 20 moves, so you can say to yourself, 'well, I've studied 20 moves deep in this opening, I'm invincible', you are missing the mark. Please please please drop your hold on finding "how many moves deep" and start focusing on how you can understand the purpose of the opening moves. You will find much greater success in this manner.

Most games at that level go out-of-book between moves four and seven. But it all depends... players will know mainlines, forcing lines, and highly theoretical lines deeper than sidelines. For example, several lines in my Scandinavian repertoire went 14 moves deep, but some only 2 moves deep... it really varies that much!

thanks, I had just heard some speaking of 20+ moves deep and with the amount of "branches" that just seemed improbable.

The thing with the branches is that they will tend to be variants on similar themes, so it will not be like having 20 totally unique ideas, but maybe 5 main themes, with certain deviations in each line. That is what opening theory is all about, testing ideas against each other. A player might have the idea of centre occupation, so there will be some branches that explore that. Then the player may choose to test the idea of centre control from afar, so you will get other branches from that root idea. So once you know what idea you are trying to achieve, the moves will flow from that idea.

Thats true, but also move variations, while still under the same "theme" can give your opponent different opportunities and change the rest of the game. You need to know what your opening is trying to accomplish (i.e. prepare for a d5 push and attack the center), however, many times you do need to know specific moves.

I guess I'm missing the point of your question then. You ask about how many moves into a opening you need to know, which is a subjective a question. There is no numerical answer to your question, none. Ask ANY titled player, and if they're worth anything, they'll tell you exactly what GM Seirawan and BOBBY FISCHER himself explain..... learn the fundamental ideas behind the openings, and then you will be able to find good moves on your own and understand the moves that are current theory. If you would like to ape the moves of everyone before you, then I'll give you a number to work from. The magic number is 4. Just learn 4 moves from whatever opening you want and you will be fine. Sound silly....that's because it is. If you are insistant on 'specific moves' then get the latest opening encyclopedia and start memorizing. If you want to retain your sanity, please heed my, and many GM's advice.

I'll give you a piece of advice as well, Bobby Fischer and Yasser Seirawan knew/know more than 4 moves specifically of their openings. Think about it...if you knew only 4 moves of the sicilian (or just about any other opening), you'd be in a serious disadvantage into the middle game if you were playing someone relatively good in their knowledge of opening theory.

Luckily, it's not an either/or thing. Many players are familiar both with specific lines and common plans in their openings... as well as general opening principles. :)

I don't think you would be at a serious disadvantage. Eventually the parroting player with no deep understanding would run out of memorised moves and then the other player would regain whatever lost ground there might be. Additionally, just because the other player doesn't have the moves memorised doesn't mean that he would pick a suboptimal path - it just might take him a bit longer thinking out each move.

So what is your question? You seem to me like Cheater_1, just trying to stir stuff up. This forum is dead in my eyes because you already have the answer to your question, you did before you even posted. Each opening has a different amount of moves in current theory, which in itself is a subjective idea. The 'solid lines' are constantly in flux, so the value constantly changes. You shouldn't waste peoples time with non-questions if you are just going to argue any answer you get. This is the type of thing that makes the newbie chess players shy away from our game. The only answer to your 'question' is that there is NO set number to fill in the "how many" blank. So study the purpose behind the moves and you will get better. Go ask ANY titled player on this site what they do when reviewing the current theory from chessbase or informant, and they will tell you that they look at the new move and ask one simple question..... WHY? So STOP wondering "how many moves" and start looking for the 'why?' like the Masters do..... That's why they are masters ; )