How to get Better, Coach or Self Study?

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Avatar of Master_Po

Lessons are high, so say getting coached 2 or 3 times a week   versus 1. a) playing 30 games a week and going over the games each time for mistakes  b) reading books on tactics, openings, and midgame with a little OTB thrown in with players close to equal and one player 200 pts better.  

Which will make one a better player quicker in a year's time? 

(starting at the 1400-1500 level OTB level)  

Avatar of ChrisWainscott
Both
Avatar of Master_Po

Now THAT'S an idea!   I prefer attacking style, btw, favorite players are Tal and Morphy. . . any attacking coaches out there? 

Avatar of Drugs_Bunny

I'm self taught. Coaching isn't a necessity.

Avatar of RookSacrifice_OLD

A coach who helps you look over your games 1 hour a week or so is very helpful to chess improvement. But If you want to get better, is that all the effort you put in? If not, that's what study is for.

Avatar of Master_Po

 Once a week coaching is enough, eh?   Didn't know that.  Other than one higher rated player telling me to pick my 3 best candidate moves, check them out, then choose the best, I'm self taught too.  Looking over my games I guess would be helpful, but can't a computer/engine do that?  Thanks for the input.  

Avatar of RookSacrifice_OLD

An engine can tell you your mistakes, but that won't do any good unless you figure out how to prevent that sort of mistake in the future. To do that, you need to find the error in your thought process, or in your evaluation of the position, or your calculation. A coach can do this by asking you questions that guide you as you analyze your games. This helps you pinpoint your misconceptions and figure out what you need to work on. A coach can also explain the nuances of a position, and understanding the position is one of the keys to becoming a better player.

Avatar of jambyvedar

You will improve faster with a coach. A coach can also correct your bad habits that can hunt you later on. I also believe that a good coach can maximize your full potential.

Avatar of marianseether2

Chess coach is better.

Avatar of Master_Po

Thanks for the detailed answer Bobby.  (you must be from Russia)  

So now, I need to find a good coach.  

Avatar of StillNewAtThis

Best approach: Coach.

Second best: Books.

Third best: Do-it-yourself analysis with an engine.

Avatar of sea_of_trees

Well, I self studied all my life. Especially during prison.

Avatar of sea_of_trees

Master_Po,

Above was serious post by the way. In one my fondest books of all time, Chess World Championships, 3rd edition, It gives you the game score without comment s, analysis, sidelines,etc. Simply the moves of the whole game, so you figure everything on your own. That's the way I used to go over masters games. Don't let anyone or anything spoon feed you the lines that you're supposed to be working hard to find.

Avatar of Duck_Rancher

Could someone explain or give an example of a chess search engine?

Avatar of Master_Po

True.  I need to do more tactics as many of my games I miss a huge tactic.  Missed one yesterday, a one move mate;  so we got a draw.

  Duck, Big Blue was a chess engine, a computer that played Garry Kasparov.  Kasparov beat it the first time, but they improved it and it won the rematch.  That was the first time a computer or chess engine beat the best human.  Today there are many that do this.  If I'm not mistaken, one called Houdini had the top spot for many years, followed by Stockfish and others.  Today, I think the highest version of  Stockfish may have taken over the first spot, followed by Houdini and others;  Komodo and Rybka  come to mind.  The top human plays at close to 2900 rated, whereas the top computers or chess engines (that you merely download on your computer and use them) are close to 3400 rated.   Who knows how much higher they'll go!  (I've read that ratings currently are: Stockfish is 3390, Houdini is 3385 and Komodo is 3380)

  You replay or play a game on your chess engine and it'll show you the top best moves to make and where you stand in the game.  e.g.  It'll show +1.1 which means you're up by a pawn...or -3.0 meaning you're down 3 pawns or a Knight or Bishop.  And these engines will calculate within a second up to 20 moves, often even 40-50 moves deep.  Yow!  

 

Avatar of Duck_Rancher

Thanks, I did find some on line, kinda a better version than what they have here but I'm not sure, not a premium member yet so I never used one here or they might give you 2 moves or so.

Avatar of StillNewAtThis
StupidGM wrote:

Someone with these skills can learn directly from an engine...

True, but the OP (self-admitted 1400-1500 player) isn't at that level yet.

Thing about engines is, they don't teach one how to think at the board. They just brute force through their lines, then choose the move that results in the best evaluation score.

They'll show you the answers, but they won't teach you how to find the answers on your own.

Experts and masters will have enough understanding to deconstruct the engine moves and find the ideas behind them.

Beginners and intermediate players, though, will likely draw the wrong conclusions. At worst, they'll have no idea why the moves are suggested, but will parrot them anyway—then find themselves clueless about what to do when unfamiliar positions arise.

It's better, at the OP's level, to learn how to think at the board. Coaching and/or books would be the way to go at this point.

Save the engine-honing for when he gets a little higher.

Avatar of StillNewAtThis
StupidGM wrote:

...when I turned seventeen and went to Washington Square Park that's when I taught myself, using feedback from Richard Gilmartin, who would mercilessly crush me with one miniature after another.

PHrases like this stood out:

"Two bishops on an open board.'

"Doubled rooks on the seventh."

...

I can't see why anyone would want to learn from a 2600 human instead of a 3500 machine.  The 2600 simply does not know what he is doing.

Your anecdote sounds like good testimony for the value of coaching. You played a stronger player, lost, then he gave you some tips and ideas to improve how you think at the board. Sounds like coaching to me.

Contrast that with losing to an engine—you don't get those tips, those insights distilled into usable, memorable concepts. Instead, you lose, then you think, "Huh.. Perhaps I missed a tactic somewhere..? Maybe I should memorize more engine moves..?"

(Or you do, at least, if you're at the OP's level.) Yes—once you reach a certain level of chess comprehension, engine moves become less mysterious, and more helpful.

But the OP's not there yet.

Avatar of IMBacon22
Master_Po wrote:

Lessons are high, so say getting coached 2 or 3 times a week   versus 1. a) playing 30 games a week and going over the games each time for mistakes  b) reading books on tactics, openings, and midgame with a little OTB thrown in with players close to equal and one player 200 pts better.  

Which will make one a better player quicker in a year's time? 

(starting at the 1400-1500 level OTB level)  

Genrally coaching is done once a week.  Anymore than that, and youre trying to learn, digest, and understand to many things a week.  

Chess as in life is about balance.  If you can do it, get a coach, obviously play, use books, and do your own analysis.  I will add that IMO it is better to use a real board and pieces as opposed to just studying online.  

Avatar of IMBacon22
StupidGM wrote:
BobbyTalparov wrote:
StupidGM wrote: 

Stronger playres are helpful but not if you want to become stronger than them, which I do.  I'm now up close to 450 points in the past two years with this training method so I think I'll stick with it.  I looked at the World Open Action yesterday and saw twenty-five players with a top rating of 2400, and thought I could win it, and on my best game, I could.  Class prizes u2000 are also nice.  The World Open open section has a $5,000 u-2200 prize I might gun for.  Also looking to start up my Chess960 league.

 

That is a lot of talk for someone who hasn't played a rated game in over 20 years and hasn't even played an online game on the site he likes to troll.

 

The World Open is going on right now.  Instead of watching it, why are you not there participating so you can prove the nonsense you put on the forums?

Anyone who wants to watch me ply online can do so at almost any hour, just not on this site. 

I chose to invest in ECE and some endgame books and to spend the time training 16 hours yesterday rather than play.  There are tournaments all the time.

I've had games published that show my ablity.  Look up Readers Showcase in August 1990 Chess Life. 

Some of my games I drop on these boards if people want to find them.  I'm not hiding except in plain sight.

 

What site do you play, and what is your user name there?

Did you have your battle in the basement?