How to get good positions by hanging pieces!

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Cherub_Enjel

I hung my rook in this game, yet still managed to make the best of it. 

 
Was hanging my rook a good idea? Or perhaps there was something else I could have done?

 

Bishop_g5

I like it! You are ahead in development with better pawn structure. Black has a terrible bishop comparing to your minor pieces. I believe your quality of activity compensates the exchange when it's easier for White to play against the hanging pawns.

It must be the opening! I have seen Nakamura doing weird stuff with 1.b3 in he's speed games.

solskytz

It was a good move. First of all, it was not a rook that you were hanging but the exchange for a pawn and a demolition of his structure. Secondly, the alternative was to play Rc1 and lose d4 with tempo on the  Q - so you definitely played correctly. 

Qxe7 is a shrewd choice. You realize that there's no way you're losing that endgame with such active pieces - and he can't find anything constructive to do with his Rs. He possibly resigned out of sheer frustration, seeing his clock go down in a position with no plans whatsoever. Well played!

BronsteinPawn

Arent you ashamed of... you know... playing 1.b3?

Bishop_g5

Argammonchess @

Really? Why so...because your engine claims equality after Qxe7? Go and tell her she doesn't know what she talking about and before evaluate again , she better wait to reach the ending! From a practical point of view even after Qxe7 the game is easier for white's than for black's, but someone who lacks OTB experience it's difficult to understand. Do you?

Bishop_g5

" I just checked Stockfish "

That's not an unsubstantiated claim, it's a lie!

Now, before you pretent again that you know how and when to judge positions, you should first start thinking by your own and then posting in a absolut character!

....and I didn't asked what your engine claim about. I asked why! Learn to read.

Bishop_g5

Come on! Don't leave now! We didn't even disagree yet...

I didn't even compared the moves knowing that 15.Qf3 is much stronger after I had to find how Whites consolidate the attack in view of 15...Nc2 16.Nd5 when White is down a rook but with great initiative. Even for someone who play this game OTB it's not easy to calculate the compensation to the end. It requires a series of precise moves when you are down in material. Not the easiest decision!

It is not about you like the move and I don't. It's about you posting an opinion in absolute character with out any excuse based on any plan, neither a variation and then you pretend that it's an easy one to take and how bad move was 15.Qxe7 e.t.c and quoting and...and..and.

Stay to your phone calls...

SAGM001

Yep . Well done .

solskytz

I'm with <Bishop_g5> here - everything he writes is correct and to the point. 

Use your head, nobody wants your engine's output. 

If I wanted an engine's output - I can also use Stockfish from my own computer. 

People who brainlessly rely exclusively on engines will not become strong - and will stay at 1700. 

kinglysac
 
Yes, sure you hung an exchange and still won, but have you hung a queen against an NM and still won?

 

14jcai

study the beginners game by pafu.

solskytz

<Argammonchess> 

This is all well. Just be aware that relying on Stockware as the single basis to claims that you make, detracts from the power of your arguments and exposes you to answers such as you got here from me and from <Bishop_g5>. 

The input in those answers may well be valuable - it's not meant as a personal attack, but as a warning against over-reliance on the machines, and encouragement to exercise your own independent judgment. 

It's good that you commented before consulting the machine, and yes, it's true that keeping Qs on the board is correct, from a point of view of general principles. 

I must confess that in watching the game I didn't consider alternatives to Qxe7+ by white - but saw it as a good choice, which it most obviously is. There may well be better moves in this position. 

Also remember that the game is bullet - so if you see a good simplification without risks, of course take it, don't keep the game complicated and give counterchances to the other player. 

And yes, playing strength is definitely a factor in determining the value of any input by chess players :-) This will never change :-). 

Maybe you are really as strong as Bishop_g5 and myself - and in any case, it's better to argue from your own personal judgment first, and not hurry to bring software into the discussion. 

solskytz

:-)

Bishop_g5

Argammonchess wrote:

 

(But yes, I confess  that I did not give a detailed explanation as to why I thought the move was bad. That is, beyond mentioning that one should try to keep the queen on board when you are down in material. Qf3 is difficult to find, I agree. Qd3 is a good move and easy to find move. 

 

I did not consult stockfish before making my first post in this thread, sorry.)

See, you are still missing the point, which proves that something is wrong in your thinking. It is not about finding Qf3 or Qd3 , when in both options you have to calculate what happens after Nc2 or Nxb3. The logic in the decision to avoid Queen trades is to find with PRESICION how whites consolidate the attack and holds the initiative, otherwise you are down a rook with a plain initiative.

Now , someone who really spends time by he's own to figure out in detail and calculate the variations knows very well that is not an easy decision to do not trade Queens even if the attack looks promising. The fact that you didn't even mentioned that in your first post, signals that didn't even crossed your mind, which again proves that your Qf3 suggestion was an impulsive one, if not was yours.

Instead...you criticize some other opinions, you put question marks about their playing ability, you post for second time saying that 15.Qxe7 is bad move with out really understand why....and now you come to say that we are the bad boys , for criticizing your rating combined to what you have already posted.

Please!? You are giving us hard time here...

Answer your calls better.

solskytz

<Bishop_g5> Just notice, if you will, that white is not down a rook - he's down the exchange for a pawn, with the black king-side demolished. 

Cherub_Enjel

Not sure what you're talking about. It's clear my rook on a1 was there, and then it's not. I'd say that counts as "losing a rook". 

Cherub_Enjel

"Hanging a rook" sounds a lot more attention getting than "Sacrificing the exchange for a pawn and positional compensation".

kinglysac

But you get his knight. So it is not a 5 point difference, but a 2 point.

kinglysac

But you get his knight. So it is not a 5 point difference, but a 2 point.

solskytz

Probably not even one pawn of difference, if you consider the e4 pawn that fell, and the demolition of the K-side. A good trade. 

Also - the knight that went ALL THE WAY to a1 is GONE from the board - together with all the TEMPI it consumed in getting there - and this shows in the position, where black is extremely under-developed. Definitely shrewd play by white.