I don't really understand how this is a draw

Sort:
Avatar of SpicyHotChilly

i was running this guys clock down as he only had like 10 seconds remaining but the game drew. Isn't mate with two knights possible? so why did the game draw?

Avatar of swarminglocusts
Of course there are exceptions!
Avatar of jg777chess
TheFrozenOctopus wrote:
swarminglocusts wrote:
Of course there are exceptions!

 

I would like to see one.


That’s when there is another piece in play to facilitate the checkmate. The game in question was two knights and king against a lone king. There is no way to force checkmate in that game, therefore a draw is awarded. 

-Jordan

Avatar of Geelse_zot

Fun fact. 

Two knights is a draw, but two knights against a pawn can be a win.

 

It wins because you can lock the enemy king and mate him one move later. The pawn being able to move avoids stalemate. The king maneuver between move 5 and 10 is to reach the same position with the other player to move.

 

Avatar of eric0022
SpicyHotChilly wrote:

i was running this guys clock down as he only had like 10 seconds remaining but the game drew. Isn't mate with two knights possible? so why did the game draw?

 

Of course mate in two knights is possible, but

(i) it's pretty much impractical in practice (it cannot be forced)

(ii) if I recall, the site has declared certain combinations of pieces to be a draw; for example, on this site, a lone king and bishop will be a draw against some combinations of pieces even if mate is technically possible

Avatar of eric0022
TheFrozenOctopus wrote:

Insufficient material. You can't mate with two knights and king.

 

Inaccurate. You can mate with two knights and a king, but it cannot be forced.

Avatar of eric0022
TheFrozenOctopus wrote:
swarminglocusts wrote:
Of course there are exceptions!

 

I would like to see one.

 

On this site, the last I recall is that a king and two bishops (both on the same colour square) against a lone king is a win for the side having the bishops if the side having the lone king flags.

 

This was as of a few years ago, so I am not certain if this has been rectified.

Avatar of Geelse_zot
eric0022 wrote:
TheFrozenOctopus wrote:

Insufficient material. You can't mate with two knights and king.

 

Inaccurate. You can mate with two knights and a king, but it cannot be forced.

Show us an example of a mate position and tell us what the last move was that caused the checkmate.  ******I'm pretty sure you can only achieve this position from a stalemate (meaning it's theoretically impossible), hence why you can only do it if the opponent has another piece.*****

  • <--- edit: I was wrong, this is false
Avatar of eric0022
 

The point is, it cannot be forced (which is pretty sad for the combination), but it is possible (based on FIDE rules). This site has ruled the position to be a draw, however, because I don't think it's realistic to award a win for the side having two knights.

Avatar of Geelse_zot

Ah good point you are right.  I did not think of such position.

Avatar of eric0022
TheFrozenOctopus wrote:
jg777chess wrote:
TheFrozenOctopus wrote:
swarminglocusts wrote:
Of course there are exceptions!

 

I would like to see one.


That’s when there is another piece in play to facilitate the checkmate. The game in question was two knights and king against a lone king. There is no way to force checkmate in that game, therefore a draw is awarded. 

-Jordan

 

I was referring to their use of the word "exception". In my example and zot's there is another black piece. If that is what they meant, then ok. I read it as if they were saying there are exceptions to what I presented. Maybe they will clarify their English for us. 

 

If there is an opposing pawn, like jg777chess has noted, it's a different story. I did reach one such endgame, but failed to convert the game as I decided that a win was too hard and I accepted a draw after taking the last pawn.

Avatar of BL4D3RUNN3R

USCF and Chess.com refuse to adopt the FIDE rules. That's a constant source of annoyance.

Avatar of magipi

It would be interesting to see how a real FIDE-rated tournament handles the issue. It is a bit hard to imagine that white can play the game on, and all the arbiters and stuff patiently wait for 2 more hours after everyone else has gone home, waiting for the 50-move rule to kick in. All the time knowing that the position is dead drawn.

Avatar of BL4D3RUNN3R

By the way, overstepping the time otb will prove decisive. 

Learning from pain in good ok‘ Germany. US player IM Friedel learned the difference the hard way in a classical otb game - he lost R vs. N. I played in the same tournament.

http://www.uschess.org/content/view/8079/141/

 

Avatar of Geelse_zot
BL4D3RUNN3R wrote:

By the way, overstepping the time otb will prove decisive. 

Learning from pain in good ok‘ Germany. US player IM Friedel learned the difference the hard way in a classical otb game - he lost R vs. N. I played in the same tournament.

http://www.uschess.org/content/view/8079/141/

 

Painful 😁 The arbiter paid attention in class.

I also would have expected a draw, as explained in "100 endgames you must know" by de la Villa.

Avatar of Lagomorph
TheFrozenOctopus wrote:
eric0022 wrote:
 

The point is, it cannot be forced (which is pretty sad for the combination), but it is possible (based on FIDE rules). This site has ruled the position to be a draw, however, because I don't think it's realistic to award a win for the side having two knights.

 

I stand corrected, thank you for citing such an example. Next question is, what criteria do we use to determine it should be "counted as a draw" if it is possible?  

If you cant force a mate on this site it is a draw.

Avatar of BL4D3RUNN3R

I mean you cannot force checkmate with King+Harry vs. King in the corner as well - it’s an easy draw. So who in the US is drawing the line?

Avatar of iqmouse

King + Harry?

Avatar of BL4D3RUNN3R

Harry, the h-pawn