If Fischer would played Karpov for the World Champion, who would win?

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JamieDelarosa

That's right.  Just as Lasker remained World Champion from the 1910 Schlecter match, until 1920.

fabelhaft

"That's right. Just as Lasker remained World Champion from the 1910 Schlecter match, until 1920"

If anyone else believed you could stay World Champion for fifty years from 1969 onwards by simply refusing to play there would be no reason to actually play the qualified challengers. Lasker defended the title for the fourth time in three years when he played the title match after the one against Schlechter. Then World War I intruded on chess matters, but anyway there is no comparison between then and now. When no qualification system existed the title holder could do more or less as he wanted. Today is isn't possible to come through the system and win the title to then refuse to follow the agreed rules of the same system one won the title in.

JamieDelarosa

The title holder should be able to do as he wishes with his (or her) title.

Ultimately, the mantle of world's best player is decided by the chess community.

The FIDE is corrupt and has lost standing to devise a "system" or "rules."  Kasparov demonstrated that.

JamieDelarosa
fabelhaft wrote:

If Spassky just had refused to play Fischer he would still be World Champion I suppose.

I credit Spassky with being a fair-minded rebel, instead of an apparatchik like his Soviet predecessors.  It showed the strength of his character.

That is why Fischer made him a millionaire!

troll-in-the-park

Fischer would win but Karpov would win the year after. 

SmyslovFan
JamieDelarosa wrote:

The title holder should be able to do as he wishes with his (or her) title.

Ultimately, the mantle of world's best player is decided by the chess community.

The FIDE is corrupt and has lost standing to devise a "system" or "rules."  Kasparov demonstrated that.

Quite the opposite. Kasparov admitted his rift with FIDE was perhaps his biggest mistake. 

FIDE continued. Kasparov's title is back in its auspices. And yes, FIDE is corrupt. But it owns the match-play title again.

JamieDelarosa
fabelhaft wrote:

"That's right. Just as Lasker remained World Champion from the 1910 Schlecter match, until 1920"

 

If anyone else believed you could stay World Champion for fifty years from 1969 onwards by simply refusing to play there would be no reason to actually play the qualified challengers. Lasker defended the title for the fourth time in three years when he played the title match after the one against Schlechter. Then World War I intruded on chess matters, but anyway there is no comparison between then and now. When no qualification system existed the title holder could do more or less as he wanted. Today is isn't possible to come through the system and win the title to then refuse to follow the agreed rules of the same system one won the title in.

You are correct - I forgot about another Janowski blowout in 1910.

Lasker had a wartime, non-title match against Dr Tarrasch.  So it was not impossible to defend his title, if he so desired.

yureesystem

It so hard for players to be objective, come on do you really think Karpov had a chance against Fischer in a match. Now think about this, FIDE okay Fischer demands and two them favor Fischer, a player must win ten games and unlimited games; do you think Karpov could have the stamina for long match. Anatoly had a hard time with Korchnoi in the 1974 candidate match and was ahead and choke it and allow Korchnoi to even the score and lucky for Karpov he finally won the last game. In the Phillippines was willing to pay Fischer 5 million dollors to play a match there, that was unheard of at that time for a chess player; to this day not one chess player  has been offer this amount, not Karpov,Kasparov or Carlsen.

jambyvedar

In his own right, Korchnoi is  a very strong player.Karpov faced him at the peak of his powers.He did have a positive score against Fischer. After that Korchnoi match, Karpov got even better. Kinda like Kasparov getting better after facing a hard struggle against karpov.

17rileyc

yureesystem wrote:

It so hard for players to be objective, come on do you really think Karpov had a chance against Fischer in a match. Now think about this, FIDE okay Fischer demands and two them favor Fischer, a player must win ten games and unlimited games; do you think Karpov could have the stamina for long match. Anatoly had a hard time with Korchnoi in the 1974 candidate match and was ahead and choke it and allow Korchnoi to even the score and lucky for Karpov he finally won the last game. In the Phillippines was willing to pay Fischer 5 million dollors to play a match there, that was unheard of at that time for a chess player; to this day not one chess player  has been offer this amount, not Karpov,Kasparov or Carlsen.

If Fischer beat Karpov, he wouldn't "destroy" him as you seem to think. It would be a close and exciting match. But I think that Karpov would have had the upper hand in the game.

jambyvedar

Karpov is  a beast of a player. I think in 1975, Karpov is already close to his beast form, because from 1975 onward he is winning tournament after tournament. Karpov's 160 first place tournment record is impressive.

Fischer's pyshcological gimmiks will not work Karpov. Spassky  by his own admission , was very lazy.

DjonniDerevnja
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JamieDelarosa
jambyvedar wrote:

Karpov is  a beast of a player. I think in 1975, Karpov is already close to his beast form, because from 1975 onward he is winning tournament after tournament. Karpov's 160 first place tournment record is impressive.

Fischer's pyshcological gimmiks will not work Karpov. Spassky  by his own admission , was very lazy.

"Beast"???  He repeatedly crashed in long matchs.

"Psychological gimmiks" by the Soviet Chess Machine are what got Karpov two match wins over Korchnoi...  If you want to call holding Korchnoi's wife and son hostage a "gimmik."

The 1978 Korchnoi-Karpov match result should be reversed based on the criminal behavior of the Soviets and their puppet, Karpov.

fabelhaft

"The 1978 Korchnoi-Karpov match result should be reversed based on the criminal behavior of the Soviets and their puppet, Karpov"

In which way was Karpov's behaviour criminal?

fabelhaft

Korchnoi's son was imprisoned for refusing his military service, as many others were. That was hardly Karpov's fault.

yureesystem

Fischer give up his rights to continue to play in world champion match because of stubborness and one last demand was not meant and approve by FIDE, the 9-9 draw the match clause. Completely ridiculous not to defense his title because of one clause and to forfeit the match; Fischer was very stubborn and would not compromise even if it meant to suffer financially and disgrace. Fischer not only forfeit the match but he ruin his chances of being the first world champion to become a millionaire; the Phillippine was willing to pay five million dollars and that was beginning bid. It was not fear that Fischer did not play Karpov but his stupidity and stubborness to not be flexible with fide; it was amazing Fischer out of 179 demands only one was not meant, Bobby not only got his way but Karpov and Soviet could not prevent him, FIDE listen to Fischer not Karpov. I have no doubt Fischer would still impose his will on Karpov in the match,Karpov was too weak in character to challenge such a powerhouse like Fischer.

jambyvedar
JamieDelarosa wrote:
jambyvedar wrote:

Karpov is  a beast of a player. I think in 1975, Karpov is already close to his beast form, because from 1975 onward he is winning tournament after tournament. Karpov's 160 first place tournment record is impressive.

Fischer's pyshcological gimmiks will not work Karpov. Spassky  by his own admission , was very lazy.

"Beast"???  He repeatedly crashed in long matchs.

"Psychological gimmiks" by the Soviet Chess Machine are what got Karpov two match wins over Korchnoi...  If you want to call holding Korchnoi's wife and son hostage a "gimmik."

The 1978 Korchnoi-Karpov match result should be reversed based on the criminal behavior of the Soviets and their puppet, Karpov.

Repeatdly crashed? He has a close match, with many considered the greatest player off all time, with  Kasparov. Even with his old age, Karpov has nice matches victories against Anand, Kamsky etc.

Karpov's 160 tournament victories is impressive.That is a beast. I believe Karpov will beat Fischer  in 1975.

JamieDelarosa

Karpov-Korchnoi, 1975 Candidates finals.  24-year old Karpov led after 17 games with 3 wins, 14 draws, and no losses.  He then lost games 19 and 21, and held on with three draws to win the match against 44-year old Korchnoi.

Karpov-Korchnoi, 1978 FIDE Title match.  Karpov led after 17 game. 4 wins, 12 draws, and 1 loss.  After 27 games he was ahead 5-2.  But the Karpov collapsed, losing three out of the next four games, with one draw.  Karpov win the 32nd game to retain his FIDE title, but Korchnoi had been playing the entire match while the desparate, criminal Soviet authorities had held his wife and son hostage.

Karpov-Kasparov, 1984 FIDE title match.  After 9 games Karpov led 4-0, in a match to 6 wins.  After 27 games, Karpov led 5-0  Thereafter he could not win another game.  After losing games 47 and 48, allowing Kasparov to pull back to 5-3, the FIDE President (but Soviet apparatchik) terminated the match on orders from Moscow, to protect Karpov, who had again collapsed.

Karpov-Kasparov 1985 FIDE Title match.  After 10 games, Karpov led 5.5-4.5 (2w-1l).  Thereafter, Karpov collapsed as Kasparov won four more time, versus one lose, to win the title.

Just by way of example.  Fischer was correct to demand a long match.

jambyvedar
JamieDelarosa wrote:

Karpov-Korchnoi, 1975 Candidates finals.  24-year old Karpov led after 17 games with 3 wins, 14 draws, and no losses.  He then lost games 19 and 21, and held on with three draws to win the match against 44-year old Korchnoi.

Karpov-Korchnoi, 1978 FIDE Title match.  Karpov led after 17 game. 4 wins, 12 draws, and 1 loss.  After 27 games he was ahead 5-2.  But the Karpov collapsed, losing three out of the next four games, with one draw.  Karpov win the 32nd game to retain his FIDE title, but Korchnoi had been playing the entire match while the desparate, criminal Soviet authorities had held his wife and son hostage.

Karpov-Kasparov, 1984 FIDE title match.  After 9 games Karpov led 4-0, in a match to 6 wins.  After 27 games, Karpov led 5-0  Thereafter he could not win another game.  After losing games 47 and 48, allowing Kasparov to pull back to 5-3, the FIDE President (but Soviet apparatchik) terminated the match on orders from Moscow, to protect Karpov, who had again collapsed.

Karpov-Kasparov 1985 FIDE Title match.  After 10 games, Karpov led 5.5-4.5 (2w-1l).  Thereafter, Karpov collapsed as Kasparov won four more time, versus one lose, to win the title.

Just by way of example.  Fischer was correct to demand a long match.

He  still beat Korchnoi period. Korchnoi is a hard opponent(a great player). He has a positive score against Fischer. Korchnoi's reached hsi peak rating in 1979. And as I told, his match with Kasparov(greatest) is close.

6RingNation

BOBBY FISCHER!!  GREATEST CHESS PLAYER EVER!!!!