Now compare the records of Karpov and Fischer against Petrosian and you can imagine the beating Fischer would give Karpov !
Classical games: Tigran Vartanovich Petrosian tied Anatoly Karpov 1 to 1, with 12 draws.
Classical games: Robert James Fischer beat Tigran Vartanovich Petrosian 8 to 4, with 15 draws.
Geller was supposed to be Spassky's "secret weapon" against Fischer. Ooops!
Karpov's advantage over Korchnoi in the 1974 and 1978 matches was +2
Most of Fischer's games with Korchnoi date back to 1960 and 1962, when Fischer was still a teenager. They are hardly representative of Fischer circa 1972-1975.
Your post in dumb, Jambyveder.
Geller was supposed to be Spassky's "secret weapon" against Fischer. Ooops!
Karpov's advantage over Korchnoi in the 1974 and 1978 matches was +2
Most of Fischer's games with Korchnoi date back to 1960 and 1962, when Fischer was still a teenager. They are hardly representative of Fischer circa 1972-1975.
Your post in dumb, Jambyveder.
And Korchnoi is at his peak when he faced Karpov. Also Karpov was not at his peak when he faced Korchnoi. But still Karpov has a positive score against Korchnoi.
Now compare the records of Karpov and Fischer against Petrosian and you can imagine the beating Fischer would give Karpov !
Classical games: Tigran Vartanovich Petrosian tied Anatoly Karpov 1 to 1, with 12 draws.
Classical games: Robert James Fischer beat Tigran Vartanovich Petrosian 8 to 4, with 15 draws.
LOL. Nice try. But Petrosian does not have a positive score against Karpov, while Geller raped Fischer and Karpov has positive score against Geller. I just can imagine how Karpov makes Fischer cry. Fischer knows Karpov will rape him and that is why he run away from the match.
Your use of "rape" twice in this topic is offensive. Consider an edit before the staff deletes your posts.
We see a match between Fischer versus Karpov match in the future but substitute to Magnus Carlsen (Capablanca-Karpov ) to Wesley So (Fischer); Wesley style is so close to Fischer and Wesley play is solid and mature, twice he drew to Carlsen.
So is no Fischer. He completely lacks the killer instinct for it. He was quite happily blundering his way to the bottom of the Sinquefield Cup, smiling all the way.
Wesley is quite young and he can muture his a bit more; at 21 he is 2788 elo, that is impressive by it self.
Wesley is quite young and he can muture his a bit more; at 21 he is 2788 elo, that is impressive by it self.
Young, old, it doesn't matter in the end. You either have the drive that carries you above and beyond your peers ala Fischer/Kasparov, or you don't. Sometimes that is purely competitive drive to beat the rest, sometimes it comes from somewhere else, but no matter where it comes from, it's usually clearly visible in the outlook and mannerisms of the player. Their focus and determination show.
Ha ha ha...basically the highly intelligent and the extraordinary should not enter the disccussion here, it's meant more for the ccommoners, people like us who are NOT well read, people who prefer details to generalities, people who are ordinary and ready to happily admit so instead doing the opposite and even trying to prove...ha ha ha...people who care to invest a lot of time to understand the truth rather than present prejudiced opinions...ya, fischer's the God of Chess, absolutely, and those who worship him are the high priests of the schizo God himself, so they can speak anything, write anything, behave any way they want...ha ha ha...Great! The great American mind at work...ha ha
It's going more like the american show, "The Deadliest Warrior" in which the americans never lose, just like they think they are always right and winning here anyway. Psychologically speaking, I find so many similarities in the working of the american mind and the mujahiddeen and other fanatics of the middle east. Absolutely, simulation or imaginary arguments win the war, here words, even though the actual war may never have been fought, despite the fact that there was a chance, and a certain party actually fled the ground.
Wesley is quite young and he can muture his a bit more; at 21 he is 2788 elo, that is impressive by it self.
Young, old, it doesn't matter in the end. You either have the drive that carries you above and beyond your peers ala Fischer/Kasparov, or you don't. Sometimes that is purely competitive drive to beat the rest, sometimes it comes from somewhere else, but no matter where it comes from, it's usually clearly visible in the outlook and mannerisms of the player. Their focus and determination show.
You made some good points! Wesley So started aggressively and now that he in the big leagues, he playing a bit passive and cautious; I believe will arise to the challenge next year. He still quite young and can improve and mature his play, he has to go back to his aggressive style.
Watch out for Isak Sjøberg,12 years old, the current blitz Norwegian champion in his ageclass "lilleputt". I met him a couple of weeks ago, and the power of his concentration was amazing. He sat down and calculated everything in move twelve. I mean everything. The amount of ideas was so huge that he spent 40 minutes. And he is so confident in moving fast that he can allow himself to have limited time on the clock.
About his 12. move. It was positionally , with black, taking the the lead. I never came back and had to defend precise until i finally messed up in move 20.
Isak has put in a huge effort for a couple of years now, both in chess and football. He claimed two years ago that he was aiming for GM, and I am sure he makes it there, and hopes he goes further up to super-GM.
When a kid is both very talented, does put in huge trainingloads, does physical training too, and have the mental strenght to calculate all the way, then he or she are heading for superstrenght.
I guess Isak is not alone, and that there are many superkids improving around n the world. In my club there are at least five kids with fantastic power, and Andreas Garberg Tryggestad, 13 years, is the most experienced, rated above 2000 and reigning adult clubchampion with 11 points in 11 games.
Hello! 40 minutes in move 12. I have never seen anything like it before. Maybe Grishuk have done it.
Thanks DjonniDerevnja, I a lot talents is coming from Norway.
Thanks DjonniDerevnja, I a lot talents is coming from Norway.
Yes, its the Magnuseffect. Magnus is the biggest sportstar in Norway, and bright kids follows in his tracks. Chess got a lot more popular among kids after Magnus became world number one, and his WC in Chennay was a boost too. If you loook at us Norwegians here on chess.com , you can see that a lot of us joined in november 2013.
Earlier it was crosscountryskiers and foreign footballplayers that were the big Idols in Norway, footballplayers still are, and you can find many kids with Messi on their shirt. I think Messi still is larger than Magnus among the kids.
One thing we probably can agree on is that Fischer - Karpov 1975 Match would have been epic.
In defense of Fischer: it wasn't the first time that he walked away from a match. He was a principled man. He had principles and actually lived by them. If you don't accept his conditions, 100%, he walks away. I understand and respect that. Fischer was a true fighter both on and off the board. I don't think he was afraid of anybody.
In defense of Karpov: he had limited freedom of choice and had to listen to what Moscow had to say. And Moscow had the final say. Karpov proudly represented his country. He even tried to arrange a match with Fischer after 1975 but negotiations fell through. Karpov was a great champion and a great former champion. As a champion, he played in many tournaments, winning most of them. As a former champion, he kept trying to regain the title and deserves admiration.
Both players were exceptionally strong in 1975 and it is difficult to say for sure how the match would go. Statistical analysis of results against other players are rather flawed and are not good indicators.
My hope is that we all can respect the top chess players and their choices. Let us also respect each other's opinions here and not resort to personal insults.
I agree that we are all the poorer because Fischer refused to defend his title against Karpov.
Spassky was lazy in his match against Fischer. Geller found some great ideas that would have given Spassky real advantages if only Spassky had bothered to study them. Karpov wasn't about to make that mistake. He worked tirelessly to improve his game.
I believe that if the Fischer-Karpov match had been played, Karpov would have been leading after 12 games, but Fischer would have made a comeback. In 1975, Fischer and Karpov were probably about evenly matched. (Remember, Fischer hadn't played a competitive game since 1972). By 1978, Karpov would have almost certainly become World Champion.
I don't have any way to prove any of this except by comparing the play of the two players during the period from 1969-1978. Karpov was scary good by 1974. Scary enough that even Fischer's fans were nervous about the upcoming match.
The world champion would win ofcourse...... That's why he's the world champion ....
Again, it is difficult to say what would happen be it 1975 or 1978 or beyond. Both players were super strong. Also, one has to remember that if a match did take place it would have to take place only and only after all of Fischer's conditions were met.
I believe these conditions were fair. A long match is something that Fischer had always been asking for - even before his match against Spassky. Also, the challenger needed to win by the score of at least 10-8 to show that he is indeed better than the reigning champ. Also, when the draws are discounted, both players should keep playing for a win, and not a draw. Spectators hate draws. So, Fischer's conditions were reasonable. Too bad they weren't met. I can certainly understand why Fischer said "to hell with it" and quit. Again, this is not the first time he walked out of a match. Happened before; it just shows that a true fighter like Fischer stuck to his guns - no matter size of the prize. This is one of the reasons he is widely respected around the World - even in the former USSR. There's also a Bobby Fischer group here on Chess.com. No other individual has as many fans (although Kasparov is a close second). By the way, compare it with Karpov fans - the group (which I am also a part of) has less than 10% members of the Fischer or Kasparov group. So, if you're a fan of Karpov, please join Karpov fans group. :)
Something that was just posted this year was that if FIDE ratings were released then as they are now Fischer would have had a 2820 rating after the Larsen match. Karpov never approached that mark. And the three year lay-off might have affected most players, but Fischer did that several times in his career and came back stronger each time--he always worked on his game. Look at the first two games in the '92 match with Spassky--they were outstanding, and that was after twenty years. And in '75, Karpov was not yet his mature self, while Fischer would have been in his prime years. I'm not saying that Karpov had no chance, but even he said he had about a 40% chance of winning. And about the clause that says the challenger had to win by 10-8, that also held true for the champion--in order to win the match, Fischer had to win by 10-8. Given Karpov's history of fading at the end of matches, I don't give him much of a chance in 1975--78 is another story, though.
I like both players and learned a lot from Fischer and Karpov but if a match took place in 1975, I believe Fischer would win. Fischer with his aggressive and dynamic style would been too much for Karpov. Karpov was leading in 1974 Candidates Match against Korchnoi but choke and Korchnoi was able to win and even the score and Karpov won the last game. The final score was Karpov 12.5 and Korchnoi 11.5. Too close and if Karpov had a difficult time with Korchnoi, can you imagine Fischer who is even more aggressive.
yureesystem wrote: I like both players and learned a lot from Fischer and Karpov but if a match took place in 1975, I believe Fischer would win. Fischer with his aggressive and dynamic style would been too much for Karpov. Karpov was leading in 1974 Candidates Match against Korchnoi but choke and Korchnoi was able to win and even the score and Karpov won the last game. The final score was Karpov 12.5 and Korchnoi 11.5. Too close and if Karpov had a difficult time with Korchnoi, can you imagine Fischer who is the best player even more aggressive.
Robert James Fischer tied Viktor Korchnoi 2 to 2, with 4 draws. Karpov has a positive score againsg Viktor, while Fischer is tied.
If Karpov has a positive score against Victor, I can imagine the beating Karpov will do against Fischer who is tied with Korchnoi.
Classical games: Efim Geller beat Robert James Fischer 5 to 3, with 2 draws. Anatoly Karpov beat Efim Geller 2 to 1, with 6 draws.
With Fischer struglling against Geller and Karpov having a positive record against Geller, I can imagine the raping that Karpov will do against Fischer.