"Why couldn't he not win" is asking why he could win. He could win because he has the ability to do so. There is also no luck in a game of chess.
If Magnus Carlsen is so great , then why couldn't he not win a single World cup event !?
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The name of this thread says that Magnus Carlsen won at least one World Cup, and yet he did not. Why is the title misleading?
The question is why could he win a world cup. Obviously that's not what the OP meant though.
Maybe now that he doesn't want to play for the world championship he can now focus on a world cup.
The question is grammatically incorrect, using a double negative. I believe he was asking why Magnus could not win a single World Cup, meaning that Magnus couldn’t even win one.
Jul 28, 2022
0
#26
Guys, no need to pile on about a language slip when you all understood the question perfectly well. Typos happen.
Especially when there *is* so much to pile on about concerning the premise of a completely wrongheaded question.
A better question is: why is there both a World Championship and a World Cup in chess?
That's like saying to Kipchoge to run another marathon after he just set a new world record. He's not going to win all of them.
Jul 29, 2022
0
#28
[ESP deleted the post I'm replying to, but I'll leave mine here anyway.]
You're right that it's 3 -- see post #15. (One was from back when he was only #16 in the world.) But it's still not a very impressive argument on your part.
What exactly do you think you're proving? You don't seriously think that Carlsen's achievements over the last 10-15 years aren't incredibly impressive, do you? Sure, he'd like to win a World Cup too. But there's really not much to say beyond that. Scoring +18 -2 =12 in three World Cups is not some sort of blot on his career.
pfren wrote:
ESP-918 wrote:
Out of so many tries...
You would say "two" (2017, 2021) if you cared to search, or if your intention was not trolling a thread.
He did not play in any other World Cup event.
2007: +6 -1 =5 in classical, +2-0 in tiebreaks
2017: +4-1=1 in classical, no tiebreaks
2021: +8-0=6 in classical, +4 -2 =4 in tiebreaks
tlay80 wrote:
[ESP deleted the post I'm replying to, but I'll leave mine here anyway.]
You're right that it's 3 -- see post #15. (One was from back when he was only #16 in the world.) But it's still not a very impressive argument on your part.
What exactly do you think you're proving? You don't seriously think that Carlsen's achievements over the last 10-15 years aren't incredibly impressive, do you? Sure, he'd like to win a World Cup too. But there's really not much to say beyond that. Scoring +18 -2 =12 in three World Cups is not some sort of blot on his career.
You don't seriously think that Carlsen's achievements over the last 10-15 years aren't incredibly impressive, do you?
Definitely I don't think like that we all know his achievements are incredible no matter what.
It's just that Magnus says he is" tired of winning " pretty much and tired of routine, because he ALREADY achieved EVERYTHING he could in chess and there's nothing else left to prove EXCEPT achieving a goal of 2900 rating barrier. I think he's missing a one quite large achievement which is World cup .
I just think he needs to achieve his last or concer his last obstacle world cup , because it's been done by other GMs and he couldn't do it and ONLY THEN he should move on to something ABOVE what anyone done so far 2900 rating etc.... You see my point?
ESP-918 wrote:
tlay80 wrote:
[ESP deleted the post I'm replying to, but I'll leave mine here anyway.]
You're right that it's 3 -- see post #15. (One was from back when he was only #16 in the world.) But it's still not a very impressive argument on your part.
What exactly do you think you're proving? You don't seriously think that Carlsen's achievements over the last 10-15 years aren't incredibly impressive, do you? Sure, he'd like to win a World Cup too. But there's really not much to say beyond that. Scoring +18 -2 =12 in three World Cups is not some sort of blot on his career.
You don't seriously think that Carlsen's achievements over the last 10-15 years aren't incredibly impressive, do you?
Definitely I don't think like that we all know his achievements are incredible no matter what.
It's just that Magnus says he is" tired of winning " pretty much and tired of routine, because he ALREADY achieved EVERYTHING he could in chess and there's nothing else left to prove EXCEPT achieving a goal of 2900 rating barrier. I think he's missing a one quite large achievement which is World cup .
I just think he needs to achieve his last or concer his last obstacle world cup , because it's been done by other GMs and he couldn't do it and ONLY THEN he should move on to something ABOVE what anyone done so far 2900 rating etc.... You see my point?
you don't get to decide what magnus does or what you think he should do
Jul 29, 2022
0
#32
ESP-918 wrote:
tlay80 wrote:
[ESP deleted the post I'm replying to, but I'll leave mine here anyway.]
You're right that it's 3 -- see post #15. (One was from back when he was only #16 in the world.) But it's still not a very impressive argument on your part.
What exactly do you think you're proving? You don't seriously think that Carlsen's achievements over the last 10-15 years aren't incredibly impressive, do you? Sure, he'd like to win a World Cup too. But there's really not much to say beyond that. Scoring +18 -2 =12 in three World Cups is not some sort of blot on his career.
You don't seriously think that Carlsen's achievements over the last 10-15 years aren't incredibly impressive, do you?
Definitely I don't think like that we all know his achievements are incredible no matter what.
It's just that Magnus says he is" tired of winning " pretty much and tired of routine, because he ALREADY achieved EVERYTHING he could in chess and there's nothing else left to prove EXCEPT achieving a goal of 2900 rating barrier. I think he's missing a one quite large achievement which is World cup .
I just think he needs to achieve his last or concer his last obstacle world cup , because it's been done by other GMs and he couldn't do it and ONLY THEN he should move on to something ABOVE what anyone done so far 2900 rating etc.... You see my point?
No, I don't really see your point. Is it that he should concentrate on winning the World Cup rather than concentrate on hitting 2900? Those aren't really mutually exclusive goals. And right now, thre's not really much he can do about the World Cup, which doesn't happen again for another year. Whereas he can try to win some games and improve his rating. What is it you think he should be doing? Agitating for Fide add an extra World Cup next month so he can win?
In any case, what you're saying here is different from what you started by claiming, which was that his failure to win a World Cup means he's not really all that good. If you want to change your point to a more reasonable one, fine, but don't pretend this is what you've been saying all along.
Also, your way with quotations in this last post isn't giving me a lot of confidence. Did he actually say he's "tired of winning" or did you just make that up? I didn't hear those words reported anywhere. And your other ascriptions of his motives don't seem a terribly precise representation of what I've read. I know it's easier to "win" an argument if you bend what people say in order to make them look ridiculous, but it's not really a path to wisdom.
tlay80 wrote:
ESP-918 wrote:
tlay80 wrote:
[ESP deleted the post I'm replying to, but I'll leave mine here anyway.]
You're right that it's 3 -- see post #15. (One was from back when he was only #16 in the world.) But it's still not a very impressive argument on your part.
What exactly do you think you're proving? You don't seriously think that Carlsen's achievements over the last 10-15 years aren't incredibly impressive, do you? Sure, he'd like to win a World Cup too. But there's really not much to say beyond that. Scoring +18 -2 =12 in three World Cups is not some sort of blot on his career.
You don't seriously think that Carlsen's achievements over the last 10-15 years aren't incredibly impressive, do you?
Definitely I don't think like that we all know his achievements are incredible no matter what.
It's just that Magnus says he is" tired of winning " pretty much and tired of routine, because he ALREADY achieved EVERYTHING he could in chess and there's nothing else left to prove EXCEPT achieving a goal of 2900 rating barrier. I think he's missing a one quite large achievement which is World cup .
I just think he needs to achieve his last or concer his last obstacle world cup , because it's been done by other GMs and he couldn't do it and ONLY THEN he should move on to something ABOVE what anyone done so far 2900 rating etc.... You see my point?
No, I don't really see your point. Is it that he should concentrate on winning the World Cup rather than concentrate on hitting 2900? Those aren't really mutually exclusive goals. And right now, thre's not really much he can do about the World Cup, which doesn't happen again for another year. Whereas he can try to win some games and improve his rating. What is it you think he should be doing? Agitating for Fide add an extra World Cup next month so he can win?
In any case, what you're saying here is different from what you started by claiming, which was that his failure to win a World Cup means he's not really all that good. If you want to change your point to a more reasonable one, fine, but don't pretend this is what you've been saying all along.
Also, your way with quotations in this last post isn't giving me a lot of confidence. Did he actually say he's "tired of winning" or did you just make that up? I didn't hear those words reported anywhere. And your other ascriptions of his motives don't seem a terribly precise representation of what I've read. I know it's easier to "win" an argument if you bend what people say in order to make them look ridiculous, but it's not really a path to wisdom.
My point is simple he can't do what other GMs CAN ! Is he still the greatest, best of the best !?
Maybe he should achieve his 2900 rating on the way as a second goal, but main goal should definitely be becoming a winner of the world Cup.
ESP-918 wrote:
tlay80 wrote:
ESP-918 wrote:
tlay80 wrote:
[ESP deleted the post I'm replying to, but I'll leave mine here anyway.]
You're right that it's 3 -- see post #15. (One was from back when he was only #16 in the world.) But it's still not a very impressive argument on your part.
What exactly do you think you're proving? You don't seriously think that Carlsen's achievements over the last 10-15 years aren't incredibly impressive, do you? Sure, he'd like to win a World Cup too. But there's really not much to say beyond that. Scoring +18 -2 =12 in three World Cups is not some sort of blot on his career.
You don't seriously think that Carlsen's achievements over the last 10-15 years aren't incredibly impressive, do you?
Definitely I don't think like that we all know his achievements are incredible no matter what.
It's just that Magnus says he is" tired of winning " pretty much and tired of routine, because he ALREADY achieved EVERYTHING he could in chess and there's nothing else left to prove EXCEPT achieving a goal of 2900 rating barrier. I think he's missing a one quite large achievement which is World cup .
I just think he needs to achieve his last or concer his last obstacle world cup , because it's been done by other GMs and he couldn't do it and ONLY THEN he should move on to something ABOVE what anyone done so far 2900 rating etc.... You see my point?
No, I don't really see your point. Is it that he should concentrate on winning the World Cup rather than concentrate on hitting 2900? Those aren't really mutually exclusive goals. And right now, thre's not really much he can do about the World Cup, which doesn't happen again for another year. Whereas he can try to win some games and improve his rating. What is it you think he should be doing? Agitating for Fide add an extra World Cup next month so he can win?
In any case, what you're saying here is different from what you started by claiming, which was that his failure to win a World Cup means he's not really all that good. If you want to change your point to a more reasonable one, fine, but don't pretend this is what you've been saying all along.
Also, your way with quotations in this last post isn't giving me a lot of confidence. Did he actually say he's "tired of winning" or did you just make that up? I didn't hear those words reported anywhere. And your other ascriptions of his motives don't seem a terribly precise representation of what I've read. I know it's easier to "win" an argument if you bend what people say in order to make them look ridiculous, but it's not really a path to wisdom.
My point is simple he can't do what other GMs CAN ! Is he still the greatest, best of the best !?
Maybe he should achieve his 2900 rating on the way as a second goal, but main goal should definitely be becoming a winner of the world Cup.
Wouldn't you say being a lot higher rated over many, many events and winning many more events then most GMs makes you better then them? In a single tournament, you can get lucky or unlucky. You can't do that over thousands of games and tens of tournaments.
Jul 29, 2022
0
#35
Ah, so you're now back to the stronger, wronger conclusion.
By the way, I'm not saying he's the greatest player of all time. I think he's awfully close, but, like most people who have thought carefully about chess history, I hesitate before making such a bold claim in the face of others who burned so brightly or for so long.
In other words, what you are doing is called arguing by straw man. That may seem like an easy way to "win" an argument, but it doesn't earn you respect -- people see through it. And, even more importantly, it's not a path to wisdom. It's a path to sophistry.
If I do some day decide that Carlsen gets my vote as the greatest player of all time, it won't be because he's won a World Cup, or even because he crosses 2900, nor will I rule out coming to such a conclusion because he hasn’t. If I do grow to declare him the greatest ever, it will be because he continues to dominate the game for another decade, in the way that Kasparov did. Such an overall dominance doesn’t require winning this or that particular tournament.
Since you didn’t reply to my request for a citation for Carlsen declaring that he’s “tired of winning,” I’ll take that as a concession that you made it up. Naturally, you’ll have to understand that such a lackadaisical approach to accuracy doesn’t persuade me to take anything else you claim very seriously.
Jan 22, 2024
0
#37
Magnus Carlsen has been the best player in the world for a long time.
Other players come and go.
A particular competition can get away from any great competitor in any sport.
Like in tennis - Sampras and McEnroe never won the French Open and Ken Rosewall and Ivan Lendl never won Wimbledon and Borg never won the US Open.
Karpov was a great great player - but problem - he couldn't beat Kasparov when it mattered the most.
A lot of chess players have their own 'best player' that they regard as the Best Ever.
Carlsen or Kasparov or Fischer are #1 on many lists.
There are debates about who would be best if players of the distant past were 'brought forward in time' and given lots of opportunity to prepare and adapt and use the game records and computers now available.
Botvinnik was great. But he had this 'obstacle' to his chess career called World War II.
Jan 22, 2024
0
#38
The most talented players were arguably Capablanca and Tal.
And maybe Morphy.
But they all died young. Morphy went crazy before that. Fischer wasn't crazy?
'Checked himself out' of the competition very very young.
I believe that Kasparov is the greatest player. A great all-round competitor.
But Magnus appears to have been stronger when you factor in his longterm continued successes against a much wider and well-informed field of top competitors.
ESP-918 wrote:
Out of so many tries he could not win a single World Cup no matter how much he tried or how hard he tried. Why do you think that?
Recently he said he doesn't want long preparation and just facing one player , he wants verity, yet he can't handle a World Cup with different opponents.
This post was made in 2022.
In 2023, Carlsen won the World Cup ...
- "If Magnus Carlsen is so great , then why couldn't he not win a single World cup event !?"
He never won a Formula-1 race, either!