DukeOfNature: So far, there was no discussions about knowing, just the question of believing. I don't think my messages were mixed - at least some people understood what I meant.
DukeOfNature: "But if you say you don't believe in something. Then you don't accept it"
I thought I made that absolutely clear - this is correct!
But if I fail to say that I believe in something, then I cannot be accused of believing the reciprocal!
No, I am not saying that you do. Now I think I understand you completely. I am just saying that if you don't believe in something, then you form a belief about it being untrue. You may or may not believe me. That's your choice. 
I'm done discussing this topic.
An agnostic stance is inconsistent with making a declaration that you do not believe in something -- someone with an agnostic position may say that they don't believe that the existence of something can be proven, but that is an entirely different statement.
If they were to say that they didn't believe in the existence of something then they've taken a position -- one of belief in its lack of existence -- and are no longer arguing the case for agnosticism.
But if I fail to say that I believe in something, then I cannot be accused of believing the reciprocal!
Surely no conclusions can be drawn from the lack of a declaration -- I didn't think this was what was being discussed at all though.
Great! Understanding someone completely is a rare thing in life (and at this site)!
If I don't form a belief of something, it does not take any stand about whether that something is true or not - it is an agnostic view (=I don't care).
I'm done, too, but thanks for the input, it was nice and appreciated!
....and how do you define that my friend?
Great! Understanding someone completely is a rare thing in life (and at this site)!
If I don't form a belief of something, it does not take any stand about whether that something is true or not - it is an agnostic view (=I don't care).
I'm done, too, but thanks for the input, it was nice and appreciated!
It sounds like it fundamentally boils down to semantics.
"I don't believe in" is not the same as "I don't have a belief about".
I agree with TheGrobe. I don't think there is any REAL difference in opinion here - it only sounds like one (from one direction).
I find this, and the fact that I lack sufficient iron in my blood, ironic. (I'm just kidding about the iron)
sorry, comment was not intended to be posted here, was directed to other folks more mad than you
Last joke is terrorrific
In terms of the equivalency between those two statements it doesn't matter whether it's truth or existence, but I believe we've primarily been discussing existence.
If I do not believe something is true, it means that I believe it is not true.
If I do not believe something exists, it means that I believe it does not exist.
Is this a conversation about agnostic vs atheism?
I don't believe it is
Did we ever mention either? I mean, the word "agnostic" was used a couple of times, but it was used in reference to having no belief. Don't bring up that stuff in here! I think I speak for most of the community by saying that we are disinterested in discussing those things in this forum. Thanks for understanding.
I stole it from BorgQueen. I still wait to his return. 
Well, I think BQ would be quick to debate about that subject. 
If you believe I am wrong that is your belief and your truth . I agree that belief in something is accepting it as truth. However, I don't accept the reciprocal. Of course, if you SAY that you DO NOT belive in something - then that is the same as saying that you believe in the reverse of the "something".
However, the issue here is (as I understood it) that when one fails to believe in something it does not automatically mean that one believes in its reciprocal.
You are sending mixed messages. I think I partially understand what you are saying, but you aren't saying it correctly. But if you say you don't believe in something. Then you don't accept it. That is a fact. What you are thinking of though is not knowing. There is a difference between not knowing and not believing. If you don't know, it doesn't mean you don't believe or that you do. Not knowing is being unsure, neutral. It means you don't form a belief or opinion on it.