Is chess a sport? - Chess Forums - Page 15

Ziryab

Jul 6, 2019

0

#281

Speaking of religion, is it possible to be a non-practicing pastafarian?

Ziryab

Jul 6, 2019

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#282

And (some) religion is rejected in the course of the argument. Well-played jomaje.

Of course, as the deconstructionists will point out, in Western languages we never fully escape the mind/body dualisms of the ancients. Our language is grounded in mythology rather than science. When the dictionary defines sport as physical, the term physical must be understood the way it is commonly construed within the tradition of mind/body dualism (i.e. muscular activity). You may reject this on empirical grounds, but everyday language is not empirical, despite the contrary claims of the lexicographers.

I want you to be right--I really do.

At least you've given us some decent syllogisms.

LIONSHAPEDBOX

Jul 6, 2019

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#283

Groan... how about archery then? Pulling the bow string in archery contest take less physical movement than a game of classical Chess?! Yet archery is accepted as Olympic sport. In fact Chess does require exertion... during a serious game most player will go toilet and walk about or squirm about in chair... plus a combination of minor muscle is required to move piece. So Chess is sport. And Chess is Art.

Lion has spoken.

Paul_The_Silver_Fox

Jul 6, 2019

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#284

An activity that involves a board with pieces and a chair is a game. An activity that requires special foot wear (tennis shoes, cleats, skates) is a sport.

hikarunaku

Jul 6, 2019

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#285

jomaje wrote:

The dictionary-based standard definition of sport is: "an activity involving physical exertion and skill in which an individual or team competes against another or others for entertainment". Chess is populary defined as a mental, psychological, rational planning activity. But. In the traditional account of mind, that the popular psychology has appropriated, physical activity (exertion/skill) is different from psychological activity. The metaphysical traditional definition, accepted also by the median everday people (athought they doesn´t know that they are influenced by the philosophical-scientific-religious tradition), is that mind (soul) is not identical to body or brain. The imortality doctrine of religious traditions comes from the dichtomoy beteween mind and body. But this dualsitic assumption is empirically wrong. Mind is a type of physical activity implemented by a bodily-neural activity. And also thinking moves in mind has imaginary schemes develped as abstractions of bodily movement schemes. Thinking, rational planning activity is a physical activity, although one that doesn´t involves a large set of muscle mobilization in comparison to other physical activities, like soocer, eg. Then, if physicial activity cannot be seen as a matter of the quantity of sets of muscles mobilized in an neurological-bodily effort, then chess is a physical activity. If chess is a physical activity involving specific game rules and sport is a type of physical activity (exertion/skills) involving specific game rules, then chess is a sport. Such syllogism is clear if the definitions of the terms are correct. In order to refute my argumentation, you can use three strategies: (1) rejects the standard defintion of sport and/or (2) accept the dualistic metaphysics mind/body, and/or (3) use a criteria of physical activity based on the quantity of set of muscles mobilized by neuromusuclar efforts (if a lot of muscles are mobilized, then such and such activity, with specific game rules (not any activity with large groups of muscules mobilized is sport, e.g. wash house), is a sport; to the contrary, it is not). The argument is:

(1) All thinking activity is physical activity.

(2) Chess is thinking activity.

(3) Then chess is physical activity (from 1,2)

(4) All physical activites with specific game rules are sport.

(5) Chess is a physical activity with specific game rules.

(6) Then chess is sport (from 3, 4,5)

Energy expenditure in human body occurs through physical and metabolic activities. Net energy spent while playing chess would be slightly more than sitting in a chair. Your argument that thinking involves physical exertion is down right stupid.

The reason why Chess is a sport is not because of because of its physical nature but because a sport is not necessarily an activity involving physical exertion. This has been implied by major sports bodies, which has already been stated.

LIONSHAPEDBOX

Jul 6, 2019

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#286

Net energy spent during a classical Chess game is more than net energy spent during an archery contest. Argument won.

@hakunikaru... So now the sport team has won the argument... you are going to argue about WHY Chess is sport?!

hikarunaku

Jul 6, 2019

0

#287

@jomaje Do you really believe a research which says that energy expenditure in chess is equivalent to that of a marathon?

You wrote: "Thinking is a physical activity" Really is it?

Your last point is due to insufficient knowledge of what has already been stated in the thread.

Chess is considered a sport not due to it's physical nature but it is categorized as a predominantly mental sport, even by SportsAccord.

LIONSHAPEDBOX

Jul 6, 2019

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#288

But wait... by that definition stuff like backgammon, checker, domino and scrabble must be considered sport also? But those are game surely?! And what about the phrase Olympic Games? Not sport but games?

lfPatriotGames

Jul 6, 2019

0

#289

jomaje wrote:

The dictionary-based standard definition of sport is: "an activity involving physical exertion and skill in which an individual or team competes against another or others for entertainment". Chess is populary defined as a mental, psychological, rational planning activity. But. In the traditional account of mind, that the popular psychology has appropriated, physical activity (exertion/skill) is different from psychological activity. The metaphysical traditional definition, accepted also by the median everday people (athought they doesn´t know that they are influenced by the philosophical-scientific-religious tradition), is that mind (soul) is not identical to body or brain. The imortality doctrine of religious traditions comes from the dichtomoy beteween mind and body. But this dualsitic assumption is empirically wrong. Mind is a type of physical activity implemented by a bodily-neural activity. And also thinking moves in mind has imaginary schemes develped as abstractions of bodily movement schemes. Thinking, rational planning activity is a physical activity, although one that doesn´t involves a large set of muscle mobilization in comparison to other physical activities, like soocer, eg. Then, if physicial activity cannot be seen as a matter of the quantity of sets of muscles mobilized in an neurological-bodily effort, then chess is a physical activity. If chess is a physical activity involving specific game rules and sport is a type of physical activity (exertion/skills) involving specific game rules, then chess is a sport. Such syllogism is clear if the definitions of the terms are correct. In order to refute my argumentation, you can use three strategies: (1) rejects the standard defintion of sport and/or (2) accept the dualistic metaphysics mind/body, and/or (3) use a criteria of physical activity based on the quantity of set of muscles mobilized by neuromusuclar efforts (if a lot of muscles are mobilized, then such and such activity, with specific game rules (not any activity with large groups of muscules mobilized is sport, e.g. wash house), is a sport; to the contrary, it is not). The argument is:

(1) All thinking activity is physical activity.

(2) Chess is thinking activity.

(3) Then chess is physical activity (from 1,2)

(4) All physical activites with specific game rules are sport.

(5) Chess is a physical activity with specific game rules.

(6) Then chess is sport (from 3, 4,5)

And this is exactly why nerds think chess is a sport. It takes physical energy to use your brain, chess uses the brain, therefore chess is a sport.

This was all covered before, and the obvious conclusion based on that definition is things like tic tac toe, spelling bees, Wheel of Fortune, crossword puzzles are all sports. They have rules and winners and all the things nerds think are sports. Except for the most important one, the physical skill part, which nerds seem to not care for.

There was recently a big winner on Jeopardy. I dont think most people would consider Jeopardy a sport, but there are rules, winners, even a lot of money. Why is it of all the thousands of activities that fit the nerd definition of sport, only a handful, maybe only chess, has participants who think their activity is a sport? You dont see Monopoly players calling their game a sport. You dont see Yahtzee players calling their game a sport. You dont even see stamp collectors, which requires more physical skill than chess, calling their activity a sport.

Maybe it's because some chess players are eternal optimists. Even if 10 sources or definitions, including all of public opinion, says chess is not a sport, they will cling to the one dubious definition that says it could be. I guess that explains why some chess players dont like to resign in horrible positions, eternal optimists. They think they can still win.

lfPatriotGames

Jul 6, 2019

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#290

fairytaleLion wrote:

But wait... by that definition stuff like backgammon, checker, domino and scrabble must be considered sport also? But those are game surely?! And what about the phrase Olympic Games? Not sport but games?

YES. That has been brought up many times. According to that definition, all those things, and thousands more, would be sports. Yet we dont see scrabble players insisting Scrabble is a sport.

Good point about the Olympic games. It seems to be known mainly for sports, but I dont see why they couldn't include games too. All sports are games, but not all games are sports.

I dont know about dominoes, but domino stacking where they line up thousands of dominoes, could certainly be a sport. It's all about physical skill.

hikarunaku

Jul 6, 2019

0

#291

hikarunaku wrote:

If you consider a sport to be strictly a physical activity then chess is not a sport. But since many sources define the word sport based on a different criteria, they also include Chess as a sport.

My unbiased opinion is that given the history and popularity of chess and some other activities/sports which are not strictly physical, were included as a sport by the esteemed Olympics Committee and SportsAccord. Thereby implying that a sport does not necessarily have to be a physical activity.

Everyone agrees that the above mentioned Sports bodies are the two sole international sports bodies. Since they define the word sport to include activities which are not strictly physical in their nature, therefore I say that in the real world Chess is a Sport.

Quoting this once again for those who missed it.

Ziryab

Jul 6, 2019

0

#292

fairytaleLion wrote:

Net energy spent during a classical Chess game is more than net energy spent during an archery contest. Argument won.

@hakunikaru... So now the sport team has won the argument... you are going to argue about WHY Chess is sport?!

I think we lost.

hikarunaku

Jul 6, 2019

0

#293

fairytaleLion wrote:

But wait... by that definition stuff like backgammon, checker, domino and scrabble must be considered sport also? But those are game surely?! And what about the phrase Olympic Games? Not sport but games?

There is a thin line distinguishing something from being a leisure activity or a sport.Most important criteria is the spectators/fans.This is generally derived from the popularity of the activity. The games you mentioned do not make the cut according to major sports bodies. Chess and some other sports which are not predominantly physical are included given their rich history and popularity.

lfPatriotGames

Jul 6, 2019

0

#294

hikarunaku wrote:

If you consider a sport to be strictly a physical activity then chess is not a sport. But since many sources define the word sport based on a different criteria, they also include Chess as a sport.

My unbiased opinion is that given the history and popularity of chess and some other activities/sports which are not strictly physical, were included as a sport by the esteemed Olympics Committee and SportsAccord. Thereby implying that a sport does not necessarily have to be a physical activity.

Everyone agrees that the above mentioned Sports bodies are the two sole international sports bodies. Since they define the word sport to include activities which are not strictly physical in their nature, therefore I say that in the real world Chess is a Sport.

Quoting this once again for those who missed it.

The person you are quoting claims he's unbiased. But obviously he's VERY biased. So he doesnt seem to be very honest. An actual unbiased source would the dictionary. Even the sportsaccord is biased. I read their definition. Their definition isn't a definition of sport, it's a set of rules to be included in their organization. Certainly within their right to do so, but not a universal definition.

If we want to use a sports authority on whether or not chess is a sport, why not take the word of the World Wide Leader of Sports? They say chess is not a sport. See how that works?

lokloot

Jul 6, 2019

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#295

chess is totally a sport If you go to a library you will see chess books under the sport section

AlexG112

Jul 6, 2019

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#296

It is the best sport ever!
You can never master yourself to win all the time

lfPatriotGames

Jul 6, 2019

0

#297

hikarunaku wrote:

fairytaleLion wrote:

But wait... by that definition stuff like backgammon, checker, domino and scrabble must be considered sport also? But those are game surely?! And what about the phrase Olympic Games? Not sport but games?

There is a thin line distinguishing something from being a leisure activity or a sport.Most important criteria is the spectators/fans.This is generally derived from the popularity of the activity. The games you mentioned do not make the cut according to major sports bodies. Chess and some other sports which are not predominantly physical are included given their rich history and popularity.

As Optimissed pointed out, TV quiz shows are sports now? Certainly FAR more popular and more spectators than chess. How many people watched the recent Jeopardy winner vs. how many people watched the US national chess championship? Or even world championship. It's probably not a good idea to bring up spectators as a requirement for sport. Watching chess is like watching paint dry, which is why so few people watch it.

hikarunaku

Jul 6, 2019

0

#298

lfPatriotGames wrote:

hikarunaku wrote:

fairytaleLion wrote:

But wait... by that definition stuff like backgammon, checker, domino and scrabble must be considered sport also? But those are game surely?! And what about the phrase Olympic Games? Not sport but games?

There is a thin line distinguishing something from being a leisure activity or a sport.Most important criteria is the spectators/fans.This is generally derived from the popularity of the activity. The games you mentioned do not make the cut according to major sports bodies. Chess and some other sports which are not predominantly physical are included given their rich history and popularity.

As Optimissed pointed out, TV quiz shows are sports now? Certainly FAR more popular and more spectators than chess. How many people watched the recent Jeopardy winner vs. how many people watched the US national chess championship? Or even world championship. It's probably not a good idea to bring up spectators as a requirement for sport. Watching chess is like watching paint dry, which is why so few people watch it.

There is a minimum threshold to be met for one criteria. Popularity is just one among many criteria for something to be a sport.

Ziryab

Jul 6, 2019

0

#299

lokloot wrote:

chess is totally a sport If you go to a library you will see chess books under the sport section

Is this equally true with both Library of Congress and Dewey Decimal classifications? What about the systems of classification used in other countries?

zborg

Jul 6, 2019

0

#300

Different Question -- Why hasn't Alpha Zero been used to play against itself -- to provide input into whether chess is a draw with best play by both sides. Surely it's creators could provide some help in (possibly) answering this BURNING QUESTION?

https://www.chess.com/news/view/updated-alphazero-crushes-stockfish-in-new-1-000-game-match