is chess a sport?

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Avatar of Slayer1483

It has been for a long while.

Avatar of lfPatriotGames
MACchessSA wrote:

Clearly those below know something that yall dont know about what it takes at their level.  So, maybe at their level they know chess is a sport and they consider themselves athletes.  Maybe at the patzer level it is not a sport and a patzer wouldn't understand why it is a sport and they are athletes.  I ask the jury who is in a better position to say whether chess is sport? These champions who know more about chess or the brilliant posters on a chess.com forum?  

 

PS: Their "Sport" is governed by the Court of Arbitration and WADA who govern international sports and has been recognized as a sport by the IOC.  Also, in Russia, chess falls under the Ministry of Sports.  So, Ifpatriotgames, you mentioned that there are governing bodies that do not consider chess a sport.  I have listed some that do.  Would you care to name one governing body that does not consider chess a sport? 

There are too many to list. Wikipedia has many dozens of governing sports bodies that do not list chess as a sport. 

But just a couple specific examples. The NCAA, which in the US is a major sports organization. It does not recognize chess as a sport. The Presidents Council on Sports, Fitness, and Nutrition. Chess is not a sport. In fact, the testing and awards granted by that council all include physical tests (sit ups, pull ups, 50 yard dash, etc).

We already covered what the IOC considers a sport. At one time poetry was an Olympic event. So was literature and music. So if we want to say chess is a sport (because the IOC says so) then poetry is also a sport. At that point we start going beyond ridiculous. The IOC is not a governing body for sports. They conduct their own GAMES based on what they want. 

Further, many countries consider chess a sport, not because it is, but because of funding. In the US, the government does not provide funding for sports. As such, in the US chess is not considered a sport. But if there is a monetary incentive, sure, of course some will call chess a sport. But that's a biased motive that's pretty easy to identify. 

I don't doubt any of those people you listed are athletes. But not because they play chess. They may play soccer, tennis, swim, etc. Chess is not an athletic activity. It's a cerebral activity. Again, this is proven by the rules of chess itself. The FIDE makes considerations for people who cannot, in any way, physically participate in playing chess. Every physical part can be done for them. This does not hold true for sports. There are no sports where someone else does the activity for you. An athlete must actually perform the task himself, not have someone else do it for him. This is the difference between chess and sports that cannot be overcome, cannot be rationalized away. 

Avatar of BestSell
lfPatriotGames wrote:

I don't doubt any of those people you listed are athletes. But not because they play chess. They may play soccer, tennis, swim, etc. Chess is not an athletic activity. It's a cerebral activity. Again, this is proven by the rules of chess itself. The FIDE makes considerations for people who cannot, in any way, physically participate in playing chess. Every physical part can be done for them. This does not hold true for sports. There are no sports where someone else does the activity for you. An athlete must actually perform the task himself, not have someone else do it for him. This is the difference between chess and sports that cannot be overcome, cannot be rationalized away. 

Well said.

Avatar of MACchessSA
lfPatriotGames wrote:
MACchessSA wrote:

Clearly those below know something that yall dont know about what it takes at their level.  So, maybe at their level they know chess is a sport and they consider themselves athletes.  Maybe at the patzer level it is not a sport and a patzer wouldn't understand why it is a sport and they are athletes.  I ask the jury who is in a better position to say whether chess is sport? These champions who know more about chess or the brilliant posters on a chess.com forum?  

 

PS: Their "Sport" is governed by the Court of Arbitration and WADA who govern international sports and has been recognized as a sport by the IOC.  Also, in Russia, chess falls under the Ministry of Sports.  So, Ifpatriotgames, you mentioned that there are governing bodies that do not consider chess a sport.  I have listed some that do.  Would you care to name one governing body that does not consider chess a sport? 

There are too many to list. Wikipedia has many dozens of governing sports bodies that do not list chess as a sport. 

But just a couple specific examples. The NCAA, which in the US is a major sports organization. It does not recognize chess as a sport. The Presidents Council on Sports, Fitness, and Nutrition. Chess is not a sport. In fact, the testing and awards granted by that council all include physical tests (sit ups, pull ups, 50 yard dash, etc).

We already covered what the IOC considers a sport. At one time poetry was an Olympic event. So was literature and music. So if we want to say chess is a sport (because the IOC says so) then poetry is also a sport. At that point we start going beyond ridiculous. The IOC is not a governing body for sports. They conduct their own GAMES based on what they want. 

Further, many countries consider chess a sport, not because it is, but because of funding. In the US, the government does not provide funding for sports. As such, in the US chess is not considered a sport. But if there is a monetary incentive, sure, of course some will call chess a sport. But that's a biased motive that's pretty easy to identify. 

I don't doubt any of those people you listed are athletes. But not because they play chess. They may play soccer, tennis, swim, etc. Chess is not an athletic activity. It's a cerebral activity. Again, this is proven by the rules of chess itself. The FIDE makes considerations for people who cannot, in any way, physically participate in playing chess. Every physical part can be done for them. This does not hold true for sports. There are no sports where someone else does the activity for you. An athlete must actually perform the task himself, not have someone else do it for him. This is the difference between chess and sports that cannot be overcome, cannot be rationalized away. 

            You twisted the question to try to suit your answer.  I asked you to name a governing sports body that does not consider chess a sport.  You conveniently sought out sports bodies that include a limited amount of sports under its authority and then tried to tie a sports absence from its auspices as proof that it does not consider it as a sport.   Belaboring your flawed logic, your only example of the NCAA does not exhaust all sports in the world not even close.  Boxing, Cycling, Table Tennis come immediately to mind.  You named no other because no sporting body attempts to cover ALL SPORTS.  Whereas I named those that actually do govern chess as a sport.

“Any of those people I listed…” are you kidding?  That phrase displays a lack of respect of chess champions.  They say they are athletes and they would be in a better position to know.

Finally, as you like to do, you changed the definition of your premise and count it as your conclusion.  “chess is not an athletic activity” even if true is different than whether chess is a sport.  If you started your own forum post under “Chess is not an athletic activity”  then there would be far less opposition though I would say it is more accurate to say it does not require athletic movement.  That we can agree on.  But a sport is something more than athletic movement.  In fact, your favorite sport of hunting relies on the “lack of athletic movement.”

Avatar of lfPatriotGames

No governing body covers all sports. In the US, it's not even an official function of government to have any say in the matter. Which makes it all the more noticeable that in countries that DO have government funded sports, chess is often considered a sport. How would they get any money if they didn't? So listing "governing bodies" that consider chess a sport doesn't really mean much now does it? If we are to be interested in what a sport is, we could just skip to the basics, and look at the dictionary. 

And yes, chess is not an athletic activity. So calling chess players athletes is a bit disingenuous. I agree a sport is more than athletic movement, but all sports take SOME movement. Chess requires none. 

And so chess, like all board games that I am aware of, is not a sport since all board games can be played with the help of someone else moving the pieces for you. Checkers, Monopoly, Scrabble, Risk, Battleship, Clue, etc. We've all played a board game with aunt Edna who could not always roll the dice or pick up the card or move the pieces. So we do it for her. Board games are like that. 

Sports do not allow that. When playing soccer you are not allowed to have the opponent kick the ball for you. That would be a bit of a conflict of interest. 

Avatar of lfPatriotGames

Given how many governing bodies do not consider chess a sport, I decided to see what our local one does. I know the NCAA doesn't, but what about high school? I know chess is fairly popular in the local schools. 

In our state the OSAA which was established in 1918 governs athletics/activities for high schools. They govern the competitions, tournaments, etc for the activities schools wish to have representation in. They cover things like golf, basketball, swimming, etc. They even have organized competitions for dance/cheerleading, and music. But no chess. No reason they couldn't, since chess is an activity. But it's interesting that it's described as an organization that regulates high school athletics and competitive activities via athletic conferences. 

So I wondered how do state chess championships (and other competitions) happen if not governed by the OSAA? Well it turns out a chess specific organization exists, that promotes and governs only school chess tournaments. They describe their purpose as promoting the "sport" of chess, and they even borrowed OSAA classifications for school size when organizing tournaments. 

Which really made me wonder. Why does high school chess have their own organization to run competitions when OSAA already exists and has existed for over a hundred years? 

It's probably a very similar situation with the Olympics. Why does chess have it's own Olympiad when the Olympics already exist? The answer is probably the same for both. 

Avatar of GoodBoardGame

Yes