The amusing theing about telepathy is that it tends to be explained, at least by some people, by confirmation bias and wishful thinking and it's the sceptics who have the confirmation bias because people who experience such things regularly know they exist, because explaining them any other way isn't feasible. Yet all the experiments fail because of the confirmation bias of the experimenters, hoist by their own whatsit.
Is chess a sport? Ending the debate
Sort:
haha sums it up, just about
Nov 15, 2021
0
#1704
rich wrote:
Yeah it's a sport because it requires "movement" of a mouse, touchpad, or movement of pieces in OTB.
If Chess is a sport, then Popcorn is a vegetable, and the French Defense is a religion!
Nov 15, 2021
0
#1706
ThrillerFan wrote:
rich wrote:
Yeah it's a sport because it requires "movement" of a mouse, touchpad, or movement of pieces in OTB.
If Chess is a sport, then Popcorn is a vegetable, and the French Defense is a religion!
popcorn is made of corn which is a fruit, not a vegetable.
Nov 16, 2021
0
#1707
I think chess is a game. being a game does NOT change its importance or greatness. however. I think that people have a misconception that if its not a sport, its not as good.
lfPatriotGames wrote:
Ziryab wrote:
Optimissed wrote:
I said she won't remember because I seem to be the only one with a memory that goes back to very young .... 6 months old. I've only met two or three others in my life.
Henry James, the famous writer, write about a vivid memory he had of being in his stroller as a baby. I remember discussing this claim in a graduate seminar in literature (we were reading A Portrait of a Lady, which I found rather dull). Skepticism of the claim was the reigning idea in our discussion.
My earliest detailed memory dates from the Christmas holiday when I was five, although I faintly recall a year or two before when I was enamored with the girl next door who was so grown up that she attended kindergarten (or maybe preschool). The Christmas memory, however, is vivid and detailed. Moreover, my parents have confirmed that matters took place as I describe them.
So, yes, a clear memory from such an age is a rare gift.
That does not surprise me. My earliest memory was from very young. It was looking at a mobile above my crib. For 20 years or more it was also very vivid, now it has faded over time but I still remember it as not a big deal. It has never seemed unusual. I have always wondered if there was some other reason, something that happened that was associated with that particular moment. But my mother has never said there was, it was just an ordinary ornament hanging over an ordinary crib. Much later, when I was about 3, I was walking barefoot outside the house and stepped on some cut glass. I certainly remember that, and still have the scar to prove it.
Two things I have always wondered about those early memories, why I remember a few select things from early on, but I don't remember most of the things where pictures were taken. And also just how far back can someone remember. I have heard of people remembering distinct sounds from inside the womb, but I just have never researched it.
I didn't get into that area. Memories from six months old and after were confirmed by my parents ... such as my first Bonfire Night (November 5th Guy Fawkes Night 1951) when I was less than 6 months. Two years later, I told them that I could remember Bonfire Night from the previous year and they said that was impossible, because it was raining in 1952 and they didn't go out, so it must have been the year before. Just over a year later, my dad was developing some film in a small dark cupboard he'd made in the kitchen. This was a different house because we'd moved. I told him I could remember him doing it the year before at the other house and also the year before that. He said that was impossible, because two years previously, he didn't do it, but he did the year before that, when I was seven months old. He asked me to tell him exactly where he was in the house, at that time; and I could tell him it was on the floor, just to the left of the fireplace in the living room. So he believed me. My memory was continuous from 11 months old, when I first walked in April 1952, but it's starting to fade a lot now and in part it's more like "memories of memories".
I was born in a small wooden prefab house, which was on a site with two others, each with some garden and also a communal area. When I was about ten, my dad took us to the site, after we'd lived in I think four different houses in different areas of the North of England. The site was cleared completely, with no trace of the bungalows. I said that I could take him to the exact spot I was born. My dad was a quantity surveyor and of course he had to be qualified as a building surveyor to do that. According to him, I took him to the exact place my parent's bed was in what had been their bedroom, on the near side of the bed. I also have always thought I had very vague memories of being Christened, at around three months old: but I can't be completely sure because there's no confirmation except in my memory.
People's memories work in different ways, probably according to the stage of development they've reached. It may be that for most people, memory is tied to rational thought and there's some evidence that for most people, rational thought is tied to linguistic ability. I always had very good linguistic and logical ability for my age and it may be that the very early development of that allowed me to stay in touch with more iconic thought patterns. That means "thinking in images", which is a much faster and much more primitive thinking mechanism, which we all possess but which, for many or even most people, may be blotted out by their having to concentrate on rational thought and logic. It's, sort of, the basis of "intuition". And probably even self-confidence plays its role. In fact, having just thought of that, I'm immediately convinced it must be so. You and I are not dissimilar regarding self-confidence, much to the annoyance of some others in both our cases, of course. 
Nov 16, 2021
0
#1709
Optimissed wrote:
lfPatriotGames wrote:
Ziryab wrote:
Optimissed wrote:
I said she won't remember because I seem to be the only one with a memory that goes back to very young .... 6 months old. I've only met two or three others in my life.
Henry James, the famous writer, write about a vivid memory he had of being in his stroller as a baby. I remember discussing this claim in a graduate seminar in literature (we were reading A Portrait of a Lady, which I found rather dull). Skepticism of the claim was the reigning idea in our discussion.
My earliest detailed memory dates from the Christmas holiday when I was five, although I faintly recall a year or two before when I was enamored with the girl next door who was so grown up that she attended kindergarten (or maybe preschool). The Christmas memory, however, is vivid and detailed. Moreover, my parents have confirmed that matters took place as I describe them.
So, yes, a clear memory from such an age is a rare gift.
That does not surprise me. My earliest memory was from very young. It was looking at a mobile above my crib. For 20 years or more it was also very vivid, now it has faded over time but I still remember it as not a big deal. It has never seemed unusual. I have always wondered if there was some other reason, something that happened that was associated with that particular moment. But my mother has never said there was, it was just an ordinary ornament hanging over an ordinary crib. Much later, when I was about 3, I was walking barefoot outside the house and stepped on some cut glass. I certainly remember that, and still have the scar to prove it.
Two things I have always wondered about those early memories, why I remember a few select things from early on, but I don't remember most of the things where pictures were taken. And also just how far back can someone remember. I have heard of people remembering distinct sounds from inside the womb, but I just have never researched it.
I didn't get into that area. Memories from six months old and after were confirmed by my parents ... such as my first Bonfire Night (November 5th Guy Fawkes Night 1951) when I was less than 6 months. Two years later, I told them that I could remember Bonfire Night from the previous year and they said that was impossible, because it was raining in 1952 and they didn't go out, so it must have been the year before. Just over a year later, my dad was developing some film in a small dark cupboard he'd made in the kitchen. This was a different house because we'd moved. I told him I could remember him doing it the year before at the other house and also the year before that. He said that was impossible, because two years previously, he didn't do it, but he did the year before that, when I was seven months old. He asked me to tell him exactly where he was in the house, at that time; and I could tell him it was on the floor, just to the left of the fireplace in the living room. So he believed me. My memory was continuous from 11 months old, when I first walked in April 1952, but it's starting to fade a lot now and in part it's more like "memories of memories".
I was born in a small wooden prefab house, which was on a site with two others, each with some garden and also a communal area. When I was about ten, my dad took us to the site, after we'd lived in I think four different houses in different areas of the North of England. The site was cleared completely, with no trace of the bungalows. I said that I could take him to the exact spot I was born. My dad was a quantity surveyor and of course he had to be qualified as a building surveyor to do that. According to him, I took him to the exact place my parent's bed was in what had been their bedroom, on the near side of the bed. I also have always thought I had very vague memories of being Christened, at around three months old: but I can't be completely sure because there's no confirmation except in my memory.
People's memories work in different ways, probably according to the stage of development they've reached. It may be that for most people, memory is tied to rational thought and there's some evidence that for most people, rational thought is tied to linguistic ability. I always had very good linguistic and logical ability for my age and it may be that the very early development of that allowed me to stay in touch with more iconic thought patterns. That means "thinking in images", which is a much faster and much more primitive thinking mechanism, which we all possess but which, for many or even most people, may be blotted out by their having to concentrate on rational thought and logic. It's, sort of, the basis of "intuition". And probably even self-confidence plays its role. In fact, having just thought of that, I'm immediately convinced it must be so. You and I are not dissimilar regarding self-confidence, much to the annoyance of some others in both our cases, of course.
Probably most people have similar memories tucked away in the back of their brain that only need the right stimulus to reach the surface. When I was about 20, my family was going through a box of old photos when I saw a photo of an old woman. I said I remembered seeing her but didn't know who she was. My parents said that was impossible as she--my paternal grandmother--died when I was less than five months old. The memory was vivid and I described her as looking down at me, and I could remember the mobile right above her and wallpaper behind her. It seems that that was the room I was kept in as a baby in a house we left before I was one year old. My best guess is that was the first time I figured out how to focus my eyes and therefore that sight made a great impression on me.
Well, I believe you. I worked out quite a while ago that you and I are rather similar in some ways, although you may object strongly, when I say that. What you said about focussing made me remember something, which in turn makes me think we learn to focus a bit before five months.
I can recall being a tiny baby. I can recall how I thought at that age .... maybe two months. I can remember that there was only one real, substantial person in the World, or my World, which was my mother. There was another, rather mysterious, figure somewhat in the background ... my father. Sometimes other people came and looked at me but I think I took them to be variations on the "rather mysterious person". I had worked out that I only had one mother and that nobody else was her but I wasn't sure about the rest and for me at that age, they may as well have been interchangeable. I do remember first focussing and I can remember smiling at my father and people making a fuss about that. Of course, it occurred to me that if other people reacted when I did something like that, then if I did it again, they might react. I think it took a little time to work out what I'd done. I tried it again and there was a smaller fuss that time, so I think I let that drop. No sense in spoiling a good thing by over-using it. I knew that and I wonder how. Maybe tied into how a baby and a mother interact.
A group of people came to see me, all standing over my cot. It felt like I was being examined but they seemed friendly and then they withdrew out of eyesight and I could see my mum and dad again. I remember not being able to focus properly at that age, whatever it was. And all of a sudden, remembering this, it occurs to me that the memories of being Christened would be real. You saying that sight made a great impression on you is real because I had a similar experience. I do remember clearly the first time I walked, at 11 1/2 months. It was in the tiny porch in our house. It was a lovely day, around the first of May 1951. My parents had gone out into the front garden and left me indoors with the doors open. I worked my way along the wall, supporting myself in the front porch by holding onto a horizontal timber in the wooden porch. I decided to let go to try to walk. It was a conscious decision. It felt as though I was floating on a kind of cloud that was supporting me. My parents saw and my dad rushed inside. He was going for a camera. I walked round to the side of the house where there was a flower bed and I started examining a lupin that was about my height and in full bloom. I was examining it very carefully and moving the individual flowers on the plant so I could see the backs of them closely. Still have the photo my dad took of me standing & looking at the lupin. Found it in a box, like you found your memory.
Feb 6, 2022
0
#1712
sport = a fun, competitive contest played between people for entertainment.
although my personal preference would be to classify chess as the 'art of logical thinking', i don't have a problem viewing it as (at least) an e-sport.
Pretty wishful, to imagine that the debate is going to be ended. Quite frankly, it's ideas like that which convey the impression that those who want chess to be a sport are dogmatic idealists or worse.
Optimissed wrote:
Pretty wishful, to imagine that the debate is going to be ended. Quite frankly, it's ideas like that which convey the impression that those who want chess to be a sport are dogmatic idealists or worse.
I had forgotten about this topic. I figured it was settled, once again, that chess cannot be a sport. At least until the definition of words like chess, sport, game, ending, and debate change.
I enjoyed your comments the other day. So I will add just a couple of my own.
We vacationed in south Texas last week. The weather was amazing and the people were very friendly. Lots to do and see. This topic came up once again which made me think of our vacation. There was lots of golf, surfing, even dancing and beachcombing. Mostly old people, but that's ok with me.
So it got me to thinking, some were playing cards and shuffleboard. Some were swimming and playing tennis. It occurred to me that when they (and we) were doing something less active, it was more game like, and the more active, the more sport like. Laying by the pool (not a sport) I was simultaneously watching two people, probably in their 70s, playing cards and also two people, probably even older, playing tennis. There is no way a mental competition like playing cards compares with the physical competition of playing tennis.
It's not necessarily that games are lesser than sports, but I think most of the people who want chess to be a sport wish for the things sports have, but games do not. Maybe they are getting older, maybe they aren't as active, maybe they are a little socially awkward, whatever the reason I think much of it is they want the recognition that games don't have.
lfPatriotGames wrote:
Optimissed wrote:
Pretty wishful, to imagine that the debate is going to be ended. Quite frankly, it's ideas like that which convey the impression that those who want chess to be a sport are dogmatic idealists or worse.
I had forgotten about this topic. I figured it was settled, once again, that chess cannot be a sport. At least until the definition of words like chess, sport, game, ending, and debate change.
I enjoyed your comments the other day. So I will add just a couple of my own.
We vacationed in south Texas last week. The weather was amazing and the people were very friendly. Lots to do and see. This topic came up once again which made me think of our vacation. There was lots of golf, surfing, even dancing and beachcombing. Mostly old people, but that's ok with me.
So it got me to thinking, some were playing cards and shuffleboard. Some were swimming and playing tennis. It occurred to me that when they (and we) were doing something less active, it was more game like, and the more active, the more sport like. Laying by the pool (not a sport) I was simultaneously watching two people, probably in their 70s, playing cards and also two people, probably even older, playing tennis. There is no way a mental competition like playing cards compares with the physical competition of playing tennis.
It's not necessarily that games are lesser than sports, but I think most of the people who want chess to be a sport wish for the things sports have, but games do not. Maybe they are getting older, maybe they aren't as active, maybe they are a little socially awkward, whatever the reason I think much of it is they want the recognition that games don't have.
Yes, mercifully, for a short time, I had too. I think I agree with you. I'm rather jealous that you live in such a huge and diverse country that you can find such enjoyment so easily. Today it hailed and rained. Yesterday we got some water in our kitchen. Luckily it went into the sink. Evidently we need a new window there but it's easier to find a tube of Silicone sealant and mix some mortar and maybe do some pointing. It hasn't happened before, in that location. The wind was from the North-East and drove a lot of rain .... it probably found a weak spot and washed the mortar out. Usually, the rain here comes from the South West or the West. This is a big, old house. Not big by American standards, of course. Fixing it is a bit of a game but not a sport.
Feb 6, 2022
0
#1716
Optimissed wrote:
Yes, mercifully, for a short time, I had too. I think I agree with you. I'm rather jealous that you live in such a huge and diverse country that you can find such enjoyment so easily. Today it hailed and rained. Yesterday we got some water in our kitchen. Luckily it went into the sink. Evidently we need a new window there but it's easier to find a tube of Silicone sealant and mix some mortar and maybe do some pointing. It hasn't happened before, in that location. The wind was from the North-East and drove a lot of rain .... it probably found a weak spot and washed the mortar out. Usually, the rain here comes from the South West or the West. This is a big, old house. Not big by American standards, of course. Fixing it is a bit of a game but not a sport.
As for the United States being such a "huge and diverse country" with so many different recreational areas in varied climates, I'm sure you know that it's bigger than all of western Europe, meaning that where you are in England you are really closer to things such as winter sports (Norway, Switzerland) sun-drenched beaches on the coasts from Portugal to Greece, even deserts (North Africa) than most Americans are. Even the boring open agricultural plains contain plenty of cities with great historical and cultural features (not to mention better food) that can't be found in places like Dayton Ohio, Hayes Kansas or Fargo North Dakota.
Actually, the larger share of Texas is sparsely-populated, parched, monotonous and seen by most as a place to be passed through as quickly as possible. And we Californians would LOVE to see some of that rain you're complaining about.
I'm enjoying the cold weather. There's a nice cold wind coming from the direction of Iceland. It's quite biting.
My grandfather worked his passage to South Texas in around 1908. He loved Galveston and would have stayed but he was engaged to be married. He was a fitter. He did ok, becoming general foreman of an engineering company and he married the best looking girl in town. He often came out with American expressions from 1908.
I was thinking that Patriot would have flown to Texas, but that isn't bad. I've taken internal flights in the USA. In the early 1980s you could get on them almost like getting on a bus.
Optimissed wrote:
I'm enjoying the cold weather. There's a nice cold wind coming from the direction of Iceland. It's quite biting.
My grandfather worked his passage to South Texas in around 1908. He loved Galveston and would have stayed but he was engaged to be married. He was a fitter. He did ok, becoming general foreman of an engineering company and he married the best looking girl in town. He often came out with American expressions from 1908.
I was thinking that Patriot would have flown to Texas, but that isn't bad. I've taken internal flights in the USA. In the early 1980s you could get on them almost like getting on a bus.
Yes. Oregon to south Texas is more than a drive, so we flew. The only bad part about the trip was wearing a mask for most of the flight. I had forgotten what a pain that is. At the airport we didn't have to because we were always pretending to eat or drink something. We went to South Padre island because we wanted something new. We've been to Arizona and California dozens of times so it was either Texas, Forida, or Hawaii. We'll be going back for sure.
But Mpaetz is right, you are probably closer and could probably get to somewhere nice faster and easier than we can here in Oregon.
Our mask requirements were removed a couple of weeks ago. Now it's personal choice in all environments. It's interesting to see that only 10% to 15% of people are wearing them and there's no delineation between the young and the old. All ages wear them. Quite strange.
I wouldn't want to live in the USA but I do hope one day to come for a protracted visit to different parts, like I did in 1981. Since then I've been either too busy or couldn't afford to travel. I'm still very busy but nothing much has got done today.
I said she won't remember because I seem to be the only one with a memory that goes back to very young .... 6 months old. I've only met two or three others in my life.
Henry James, the famous writer, write about a vivid memory he had of being in his stroller as a baby. I remember discussing this claim in a graduate seminar in literature (we were reading A Portrait of a Lady, which I found rather dull). Skepticism of the claim was the reigning idea in our discussion.
My earliest detailed memory dates from the Christmas holiday when I was five, although I faintly recall a year or two before when I was enamored with the girl next door who was so grown up that she attended kindergarten (or maybe preschool). The Christmas memory, however, is vivid and detailed. Moreover, my parents have confirmed that matters took place as I describe them.
So, yes, a clear memory from such an age is a rare gift.
It gets hazy as I go back in time. But I have lots of memories from seven months on and when I get to 11 months, it isn't any different from five years ago. So I know how babies think, because I can remember. It's all about images and impressions, like the day the King died, when I was nine months old. I remember that because I was in my pram .... one of the old-fashioned, big types, and we'd been into the town and when we got back there was serious music on the radio. I mean, the wireless. It wasn't called a radio here until the 1960s. It wasn't a bad day ... overcast but no rain and not too cold and a gaggle of ladies were talking in subdued tones. Everything seemed sad but accepting and one of the ladies went inside for her radio and put it on a small table outside her front door. They came over to talk to my mother and one of them said, looking at me, that I wouldn't know what was happening. It was a year or two later that I found out and of course, I had understood a small bit of what was being said but couldn't talk at all. Strange really. But I do completely believe in and accept the reality of telepathy. That's just something else that a lot of people understand is real and a lot of others refuse to accept its possibility. That's also funny. To explain it by coincidence really is stretching wishful thinking and confirmation bias past its limits.