Is chess a sport or a game

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Avatar of TheGrobe
CircleSquaredd wrote:

Well then TheGrobe you don't understand what a sport is if you think there must be sweating involved. If there is an end to the game were it becomes repetitive as checkers has been proven to be then you cannot call that a sport. If there is room for endless express within the rules of the game then it's a sport. Parroting the vague physicality argument doesn't pass the test.


I'll try another simple disqualifier: If you can still play it while your are grossly obese it is clearly not a sport.  I don't think I'm the one who doesn't understand what a sport is, sports are physical in nature -- it's as simple as that.

There seems to be a lot of emotion involved in the "chess is a sport" camp that I think is rooted in the feeling that if chess doesn't make the grade as a sport it is somehow inferior to other activities that do.  I think this is the reasoning flaw that is causing people to make outlandish and ridiculous justifications for an unsupportable position.  Just because chess isn't a sport doesn't diminish it in any way.  It's a game -- ganted, the best game ever and superior to many sports in my opinion, but still just a game.

Avatar of WanderingWinder
CircleSquaredd wrote:
WanderingWinder wrote:
CircleSquaredd wrote:

The dictionary definition of sport is not the definitive authority when it comes to parsing what qualifies and what doesn't. The superficial notion that a sport must involve a certain amount of physical activity is insufficient. Who's to say how much it takes, must you break a sweat first? That is quite a loose argument.

The real differences between a game and a sport aren't so obvious as to which involves more bodily movement. No, the real difference is whether or not the game within it's rules is limited i.e finite in expression. Checkers has been solved, it is limited and is therefore relegated to merely a game. Chess is near infinite and is for the moment a sport, the 64 squares is enough.


It can be argued quite well that everything is finite. Furthermore, are you saying that chess is a sport now but will cease to be if it ever gets solved? That's sorta ridiculous.


Well what happens during a basketball game isn't "finite" and everyone agrees that its a sport. The number of possible chess games is for all intents and purposes infinite, and that doesn't even matter considering for the context of two people playing a game there is no point at which the ideas will run out. There is no sense in pointing to the abstract and saying something like "well if a supercomputer comes along and solves chess"-then it would be a merely a "game" to the supercomputer because an end has been reached. To us humans that point is moot. The possibilities for us wont ever be exhausted.


Actually the number of possibilities in a basketball game is finite, just incredibly large. I could get into the physics of it, but you wouldn't appreciate it. From a practical standpoint, however, there are also probably only several hundred billion different possibilities. I was basing all this on your saying that checkers is now a game because it was solved. It too, is only solved for the computers, and human players have vast different possibilities, not too different from chess.

Avatar of BFM

Simply put - I consider your ideology out of date. No emotions involved from my part in supporting the "chess is a sport" option.

What makes it emotional, is the tendency to call the opposing views "outlandish" or "ridicilous" and attempting to force your "solely right" view on others when it is clearly an issue with different possible point of views - i think that should generally not be acceptable:P  

The topic could just as well be about any other mind sport field (like bridge for example), or any other less physically demanding sports listed before (computer gaming sports, shooting, motor sports, remote control sports etc)

Avatar of Soulzityr

Okay, table tennis and NASCAR are sports in my opinion. Someone else said grandmasters consider being in shape important. I agree. Of course it is. Study psychology. A healthy body builds a healthy mind, thus someone who wants to be successful at chess better plan on going the gym to work at mental optimum.

However, table tennis and NASCAR are sports and chess isn't. This, of course, is still just my opinion. Table tennis can be physically exhausting, and requires just as much form and technique as regular tennis does. As for NASCAR, spectating reveals very little if you do not understand cars and the physical demands on the driver's body. It's stressful to the body, especially against the G Forces. Someone talks about how much harder it is to keep it straight in 75 mph than 25 mph. That is a sort of good example, but an actual race car is MUCH harder than that.

Chess has physical demands as well, but it's not a sport in my opinion. Why? Differences in physical ABILITY does not matter. A receiver vs. corner, who's faster? better at making cuts? Ping pong, reflexes, form, technique. Etc. Etc. Chess does not reward players for being better at picking up pieces and moving them. While there is a physical endurance involved in highest-level of play, that definitely doesn't apply to amateurs like me, and to me, the fact that you can play chess against other people online clearly show that the physical aspect of the competition is very minimal and insignificant, proven by the fact that the better player in chess still wins most of the time with no regards towards physical health/ability at all.

In conclusion, I believe chess is not a sport because you do not practice any physical aspect of it. You don't practice picking up pieces and setting them down, or moving around to activate your brain. While in sports, such as basketball, you practice the jump shot, the lay up, crossovers, etc.

Sorry for long post.

Avatar of TheGrobe

It could by about any of those things and my position would be the same -- they are not sports.  Any of them could be performed by a morbidly obese person who none of us could, in good faith, call an athlete.

Avatar of Arv123

sport

Avatar of Arv123

you exerscise your mind

Avatar of Kupov
TheGrobe wrote:

It could by about any of those things and my position would be the same -- they are not sports.  Any of them could be performed by a morbidly obese person who none of us could, in good faith, call an athlete.


"Athlete; a person trained to compete in sports"

Physical fitness has nothing to do with whether or not a person is defined as an athlete.

Avatar of Soulzityr

It's just fun to debate. And as for the poster who said video games cause obesity, many things cause obesity :P But video game competitions are starting to become very popular, and many "pro gamers" exercise and prepare physically for them the same way many chess players physically prepare themselves for chess games xD

Avatar of TheGrobe
Kupov wrote:
TheGrobe wrote:

It could by about any of those things and my position would be the same -- they are not sports.  Any of them could be performed by a morbidly obese person who none of us could, in good faith, call an athlete.


"Athlete; a person trained to compete in sports"

Physical fitness has nothing to do with whether or not a person is defined as an athlete.


So to you, someone who is morbidly obese could qualify as an athlete?

Avatar of CircleSquaredd

What I think is important about defining a sport is not the players but the rules of the game. I think chess should probably be called a mind sport which gives it that technical distinction. Though my personal opinion is that chess is representative of the elements that makes up a sport and I would go so far as to say that it is an archetypal sport. The fact that it is a board game instead of a physical activity is besides the point.

Avatar of alwaysmated

...it's a powerful instrument in sport n' in games to further acknowledge hidden visions, unknowinglly hidden on our neurons,... to attain individual refinements in life, as in also anticipating conformity on 'the next level...

Avatar of CircleSquaredd
alwaysmated wrote:

...it's a powerful instrument in sport n' in games to further acknowledge hidden visions, unknowinglly hidden on our neurons,... to attain individual refinements in life, as in also anticipating conformity on 'the next level...


Exactly

Avatar of TheGrobe
Karl_ wrote:
TheGrobe wrote:

It could by about any of those things and my position would be the same -- they are not sports.  Any of them could be performed by a morbidly obese person who none of us could, in good faith, call an athlete.


I don't think if being obese is a good way to describe either an athlete or if the activity is a sport or not.  I have seen some pretty fat baseball pitchers, golfers, shoot even women tennis players.

I am finding it rather humorous that some posters are so passionate about this topic.  It all just depends on your definition of what is a sport.  Chess has always been in the category of a board game to me just like checkers, go, or monopoly.  You play them on a board.  Card games are just that, your use cards to play them.  I guess video and computer games would be games you must use a monitor or TV.  Sports use a more physical stage to play on.  Even target sports like darts or archery use a target but also a certain distance from that target thus introducing a physical stage.  Perhaps that is a better way to define what is a sport.


Morbidly obese. I'm talking John Pinette -- not Tommy Lasorda

Avatar of pizzaking

Disclaimer: Only read page 8.

I don't get the "morbidly obese" argument.  Obese people can play sports, just maybe not as well as someone in better physical condition. 

While chess doesn't rely on physical conditioning as much as other sports, it definitely does require some conditioning and physiological endurance. Healthy mind, healthy body.. that sort of thing.

I don't see why it can't be a sport and a game.  I wouldn't necessarily call it athletics though.

Avatar of TheGrobe

That's not the entirety of the disqualifier though -- the other piece is that they're also competitive at the top level of the game.

Avatar of Suggo

George Foreman among a lot of other heavy weight boxers (Butterbean).  Other athletes would include some of the wrestles of old.  There are a number of other sports where rather weighty people have competed at the highest levels, John Daly in golf along with a number of others.  Sumo wrestling, it is a requirement.  Shooting is another where morbidly obese people can and do compete.

Avatar of Kupov
TheGrobe wrote:
Kupov wrote:
TheGrobe wrote:

It could by about any of those things and my position would be the same -- they are not sports.  Any of them could be performed by a morbidly obese person who none of us could, in good faith, call an athlete.


"Athlete; a person trained to compete in sports"

Physical fitness has nothing to do with whether or not a person is defined as an athlete.


So to you, someone who is morbidly obese could qualify as an athlete?


As long as they are participating meaningfully in a 'sport'.

All sports may be physical but that doesn't make athlete a singular physical title.

"Morbidly obese. I'm talking John Pinette -- not Tommy Lasorda"

Suppose being obese was a sport (I know I'm just being silly), physical fitness aside that would make John Pinette an athlete by definition.

Avatar of Kupov
Suggo wrote:

George Foreman among a lot of other heavy weight boxers (Butterbean).  Other athletes would include some of the wrestles of old.  There are a number of other sports where rather weighty people have competed at the highest levels, John Daly in golf along with a number of others.  Sumo wrestling, it is a requirement.  Shooting is another where morbidly obese people can and do compete.


If we are judging shooting on the same scale on which we are judging chess then it's clearly not a sport in many peoples eyes.

Avatar of sss3006

Sportive game ?Hmm - not always (not with all players)

Game which can be a sport? Yes

Anyway - a rose by any other name .....