Is Chess from the future?

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Avatar of Ziryab

Indeed they were, if it were possible to be civilised without chess. Do not forget, we are discussing chess and its origins. Your version relies upon Muslims, although your Wikiknowledge is too thin to recognize the connections.

Avatar of TheronG12
Fiveofswords написал:
pineconehenry wrote:
But, since the resident genius, fiveofwands, states that Europe created chess, which is complete contrary to all scholarly research, then the explanation can be only one of three things: 1. Time travel is involved in some way which obscures our (anyone who is not fiveofwands) understanding of it. 2. Aliens. Or, 3. Five of wands has no idea what he is saying and is likely saying these things as a complex and as of yet hardly understood form of Epic Trolling. (Chess was invented in India circa 8th century by humans) We humbly await the wisdom of fiveofwands...

scholarly research does quite plainly asservate that the moves of the queen and bishop as well as other importnat rules such as castling pawns moving 2 squares on first move and en passant were developed by the europeans. Thats chess. Checkers also has pieces moving around on squares but its not chess.

YOu have some other definition for chess? when you aks someone to play chess do you expect their queen to only be moving 1 square diagonally?

The Europeans took an existing game and improved it. You don't claim that the Wright brothers didn't invent the airplane because they didn't invent the jet engine or stealth technology, do you?

Avatar of 913Glorax12

So  this was going to happen no matter what!

 

All is explained

Avatar of TheronG12

I think you're understanding the question differently from everyone else. If you ask who invented the modern version of the game we know as chess, then of course you're right and it was the Spaniards 500 years ago or whenever it was.

But most people, when they ask who invented chess, aren't talking about the modern version of the game. They want to know where the earlier forms of the game that modern chess evolved from came from, which apparently was originally somewhere in India.

Avatar of Amethyst2002

Actually, Chess has been around for quite a while, from ancient India in the form of a four player game called Chaturanga. It then originated to Persia, where it was modified and renamed as Shatranj, extremely similar to the game we know today. The only things that were different were the movements of the Queen and the Bishop ( which are known as Minister and Elephant, respectively in Persian, now modern day Iran). The pawn's movement was also different in the sense that it could not move two spaces forward on its first move, and en passent did not exist.

Later, in Spain, sometime in the 12th century, the Queen was given the freedom of movement that is possesses today, most likely as an influence of Queen Isabella of Castiel. The first checkered chess board also appeared around that time. I can't recall when the pawn moves were finally set right as we know them today- it may have been around that time or later in the renaissance.

Avatar of Squishey

The primitive people of the past, probably never expected chess to develop into such a technical and complicated game!

Avatar of TheronG12
Fiveofswords написал:
TheronG12 wrote:

I think you're understanding the question differently from everyone else. If you ask who invented the modern version of the game we know as chess, then of course you're right and it was the Spaniards 500 years ago or whenever it was.

But most people, when they ask who invented chess, aren't talking about the modern version of the game. They want to know where the earlier forms of the game that modern chess evolved from came from, which apparently was originally somewhere in India.

and isnt called chess. Chaturanga and chess are different games. Chess was a product of europe. sorry but thats the only way the words work.

And heres the thing that really irks me about all this. The fact is chess is more interesting that the prior game, and it was developed by europeans. But i really feel that some sort of post colonial guilt makes people feel some desire to make an obsequious nod at some prior non-european culture for the game.

We dont need that. Its simply a delusional view of history to pretend that europeans were not responsible for the vast majority of 'human progress'. COmpletely false and delusional. They were. It doesnt matter how many irrelevant salutes we try to make to the trivial contributions of other ethnicities...you cannot be honest and have a brain and fail to notice the ridiculously lopsided history of human knowledge and accomplishment.

But in the usa especially there is a tremendous cultural congitive dissonance. because accomplishment and money and successfully exploiting the weak is supposed to be the only thing that makes you matter in the us....and with that attitude we might as well be facist as well, especially considering history.

Well im a bit wiser than my peers in that regard. I dont worship accomplishment. I think there is nothing shameful about having a happy idle life without grand ambitions (in fact ambition annoys me).

Therefore i can respect the people in history who did not focus on victory in war and production and other exhausting pursuits who have therefore been marginalized by the europeans who did.

So im actually not a racist. And i see the mainstream us culture is very racist...simply full of denial about it. I would like to force these morons to see the contradiction in their logic. If all they care about is accomplishment...then why arent they pretending that white men are superior? eh? They should make a choice and be logically consistent about it.

Is the name really that important? It's not a different game in Russia just because it's called shakhmaty. Even if the name was changed when it was copied from Chaturanga, and then some rules were changed too, that's still where it came from originally. The Europeans took an existing game and improved it a lot. But you can at least give some credit to the Arabs who gave them the idea in the first place.

Other than that, I pretty much agree with what you wrote. Europe has been mostly ahead of the rest of the world for centuries, and just because they sometimes misused the power that gave them is no reason to pretend that they weren't.

Avatar of lisa_zhang_tok
Knightly_News wrote:

Chess is too sophisticated to have been conceived and developed by the primitive peoples of its time.  Of course, the notion that  aliens brought the game of chess to humanity is absurd. More likely, Chess was the gift of time-traveling humans.

I think its silly to imagine that there is a future, WW3 is coming soon, and we have yet to time travel. 

Avatar of ChessBrilliancy38

The earliest predecessor of chess probably originated in India. That game evolved into modern chess in Europe. The rules changed. The movement of some of the pieces changed. The queen, which was originaly called the "ferz", could only move one square diagonally! There was no double pawn move or en passent. Yes, the oldest variation of modern chess originated in India, but the game we play today developed in Europe.

Avatar of Ziryab

I'd like to see FoS expound further on the word chess. That would be interesting. It is abundantly clear that his Wikiknowledge kicks H.J. R. Murray's butt.

Avatar of Ishrak

possibly :p

Avatar of Ziryab

Yo, Five, since you know everything, you can settle something. My cousin tells me that I write a check to pay my bills because the Persian word for king is shah. I think he's been smoking some legal marijuana.

Avatar of Ziryab

Avoidance! Good strategy when you don't know what you're talking about. A little historical etymology would serve you well.

 

Of course, you already know that "historical etymology" is a pleonasm. I need not tell you that.

Avatar of NewArdweaden
Ziryab wrote:

Yo, Five, since you know everything, you can settle something. My cousin tells me that I write a check to pay my bills because the Persian word for king is shah. I think he's been smoking some legal marijuana.

He does, doesn't he.

Avatar of Ziryab

Of course. That's because you cannot distinguish a mirror from a window.

 

You could admit that you don't know more than a few tidbits about the games that have been called Schach, des Echecs, Skak, Ajedrez, ..., and also that you lack any genuine historical perspective concerning the game through the centuries.

That you do not know the financial history of Great Britain vis-a-vis the game of chess has already been made abundantly clear by your blank stare and general avoidance.

When faced with an oblique stoner who knows more history than you do, you retreat into an unrelated topic that you can Google. My fictional cousin thinks you've been sniffing the model paints used on plastic aeroplanes. 

Avatar of TheAdultProdigy
Fiveofswords wrote:
pineconehenry wrote:
But, since the resident genius, fiveofwands, states that Europe created chess, which is complete contrary to all scholarly research, then the explanation can be only one of three things: 1. Time travel is involved in some way which obscures our (anyone who is not fiveofwands) understanding of it. 2. Aliens. Or, 3. Five of wands has no idea what he is saying and is likely saying these things as a complex and as of yet hardly understood form of Epic Trolling. (Chess was invented in India circa 8th century by humans) We humbly await the wisdom of fiveofwands...

scholarly research does quite plainly asservate that the moves of the queen and bishop as well as other importnat rules such as castling pawns moving 2 squares on first move and en passant were developed by the europeans. Thats chess. Checkers also has pieces moving around on squares but its not chess.

YOu have some other definition for chess? when you aks someone to play chess do you expect their queen to only be moving 1 square diagonally?

The word is "asseverate."  Don't hurt yourself.  

Avatar of TheAdultProdigy
Fiveofswords wrote:

your desperate attempy to use polysyllabic words doesnt actually manage to conceal your immaturity.

Ironic.

Avatar of Ziryab
Fiveofswords wrote:

your desperate attempy [sic] to use polysyllabic words doesnt actually ....

I suppose that you could pronounce "financial" as four syllables, although most dictionaries have it as three, as they do most of the other long words in the post that offended you. I'm very sorry that you find such long words so intimidating. Oops. Intimidating is polysyllabic. 

Avatar of Darth_Algar

So according to the logic presented here by FiveOfSwords the NBA didn't play basketball before the late 1970s, since that's when they adopted modern rules such as the 3 point line. Before that they played a different game.

Avatar of TheAdultProdigy
Ziryab wrote:
Fiveofswords wrote:

your desperate attempy [sic] to use polysyllabic words doesnt actually ....

I suppose that you could pronounce "financial" as four syllables, although most dictionaries have it as three, as they do most of the other long words in the post that offended you. I'm very sorry that you find such long words so intimidating. Oops. Intimidating is polysyllabic. 

Laughing  He's been known to run and cry to moderators.  Not sure why, but they actually yank threads because he gets offended, and by words like "financial," no less.