Is Rab1 a consideration in this position??

Sort:
WildeyeQ

 Read through my comments on each moves and get an idea of my way of thinking.  Please make corrections. I'm trying to understand the opening better. I want to think the right way.  Thank you. 

IMKeto

You could, but do you want to tie a rook down to just defense?

Examine the position, and ask yourself:

Pre Move Checklist:

1. Make sure all your pieces are safe. 

2. Look for forcing moves: Checks, Captures, Threats. You want to look at ALL forcing moves (even the bad ones) as this will force you look at, and see the entire board. 

3. If there are no forcing moves, you then want to remove any of your opponent’s pieces from your side of the board.

4. If your opponent doesn’t have any of his pieces on your side of the board, then you want to improve the position of your least active piece.

 

5. After each move by your opponent, ask yourself: "What is my opponent trying to do?"

Now we know all of your pieces aee safe.

You have no Checks, or good captures.  That leaves Threats.

Black has 1 piece on your side of the board.

17.Qd2 Is a threat to trade queens, satisfies #4 as it removes blacks most active piece from your side of the board.  

WildeyeQ
IMBacon wrote:

You could, but do you want to tie a rook down to just defense?

Examine the position, and ask yourself:

Pre Move Checklist:

1. Make sure all your pieces are safe. 

2. Look for forcing moves: Checks, Captures, Threats. You want to look at ALL forcing moves (even the bad ones) as this will force you look at, and see the entire board. 

3. If there are no forcing moves, you then want to remove any of your opponent’s pieces from your side of the board.

4. If your opponent doesn’t have any of his pieces on your side of the board, then you want to improve the position of your least active piece.

 

5. After each move by your opponent, ask yourself: "What is my opponent trying to do?"

Now we know all of your pieces aee safe.

You have no Checks, or good captures.  That leaves Threats.

Black has 1 piece on your side of the board.

17.Qd2 Is a threat to trade queens, satisfies #4 as it removes blacks most active piece from your side of the board.  

Thanks IMBacon.  I must admit i thought of 17.Qd2 But 17...Ne4 felt dangerous to me. I dislike those Knights.  Plus after 18.Qxb4 Nxb4.  I have to chase two knights away... Or maybe it's just paranoia. 

IMKeto

What you always want to keep in mind is the importance of Piece Activity.  When you can, you always want to make your pieces as active as possible, while making your opponents pieces as passive as possible.  

Preggo_Basashi

A move like Rb2 is definitely worth considering, but it's always sad to assign a major piece to passive defensive duty (if the pawn were across the mid line, that wouldn't be so bad, because the rook would have some squares, but on b2 the pawn really suffocates the rook).

 

So it's also definitely worth considering alternatives. Especially because Qxb2 may not win a pawn after Rb1 and Rxb7.

The other thing I notice is the knight on a3 is inactive, so I'm attracted to trying to sacrifice the pawn with Nc2-e3... but at least half the time when I'm sacrificing pawns the engine laughs at me and tells me to be willing to play passive defense for a while tongue.png

 

Of course Qd2 keeps things defended and challenges black's queen, so I ask myself if the queen on f4 is doing good there, and I think, yeah, I like hitting squares like c7, b8, d4 and indirectly f7. I like being centralized and hard to chase away.

 

So that's how thinking usually goes... you try to make active moves work, like Nc2. I even entertained ideas of sacrificing the knight with stuff like Qc7 Qxb2 Rb1 with the idea that Rxb7 wins back my pawn and attacks black's knight.

But then if none of that stuff works, you give up and play a move like Rb1 or Qd2.

Preggo_Basashi

And as IMBacon plays, Qd2, we see it's a much more active defense than Rb1. The queen on d2 is not ideal, but it's not crying tongue.png she influences many squares. A rook on b1 is really unhappy with a pawn right in its face and influences very few squares.

WildeyeQ
Preggo_Basashi wrote:

A move like Rb2 is definitely worth considering, but it's always sad to assign a major piece to passive defensive duty (if the pawn were across the mid line, that wouldn't be so bad, because the rook would have some squares, but on b2 the pawn really suffocates the rook).

 

So it's also definitely worth considering alternatives. Especially because Qxb2 may not win a pawn after Rb1 and Rxb7.

The other thing I notice is the knight on a3 is inactive, so I'm attracted to trying to sacrifice the pawn with Nc2-e3... but at least half the time when I'm sacrificing pawns the engine laughs at me and tells me to be willing to play passive defense for a while

 

Of course Qd2 keeps things defended and challenges black's queen, so I ask myself if the queen on f4 is doing good there, and I think, yeah, I like hitting squares like c7, b8, d4 and indirectly f7. I like being centralized and hard to chase away.

 

So that's how thinking usually goes... you try to make active moves work, like Nc2. I even entertained ideas of sacrificing the knight with stuff like Qc7 Qxb2 Rb1 with the idea that Rxb7 wins back my pawn and attacks black's knight.

But then if none of that stuff works, you give up and play a move like Rb1 or Qd2.

Thanks preggo_Basashi. I get your point.

And i think Qc7 would've worked better Rf8 wasn't there. Thanks again

WildeyeQ
IMBacon wrote:

What you always want to keep in mind is the importance of Piece Activity.  When you can, you always want to make your pieces as active as possible, while making your opponents pieces as passive as possible.  

Thanks IMBacon.  Please what's the idea behind 20...f6 how does it stop white from creating the passed pawn with Nxe4? And why did white play 21.Na4 instead? 

IMKeto
WildeyeQ wrote:
IMBacon wrote:

What you always want to keep in mind is the importance of Piece Activity.  When you can, you always want to make your pieces as active as possible, while making your opponents pieces as passive as possible.  

Thanks IMBacon.  Please what's the idea behind 20...f6 how does it stop white from creating the passed pawn with Nxe4? And why did white play 21.Na4 instead? 

20...f6 keeps the knight off of the e5 square, and helps get the King active.

WildeyeQ
IMBacon wrote:
WildeyeQ wrote:
IMBacon wrote:

What you always want to keep in mind is the importance of Piece Activity.  When you can, you always want to make your pieces as active as possible, while making your opponents pieces as passive as possible.  

Thanks IMBacon.  Please what's the idea behind 20...f6 how does it stop white from creating the passed pawn with Nxe4? And why did white play 21.Na4 instead? 

20...f6 keeps the knight off of the e5 square, and helps get the King active.

Okay cool.  So this is reason enough to not create the passed pawn again and to play Na4 instead... with Nb6 or Nc5 to follow. 

NichtGut

If you like slow deaths then yeah. Rab1 is a very possible move. A faster death might be Qd2, and even faster one would be to extend your hand over the board and smile at your opponent. 

WildeyeQ
NichtGut wrote:

If you like slow deaths then yeah. Rab1 is a very possible move. A faster death might be Qd2, and even faster one would be to extend your hand over the board and smile at your opponent. 

NichtGut.  Okay thanks

madratter7

If you run an engine on this position (and I sure hope this isn't an ongoing game), top moves are Qc1 and Qd2. Of the two, I would play Qd2.

Both moves have White rated as slightly worse.

I personally, would play Qd2 as it is the more active and challenging defense against black. I hate totally passive moves, as then your opponent can do anything they like (and usually it isn't good for you).

I looked for more active moves than Qd2 here, but unfortunately, they all fail.

I can't even find a half decent way to throw away the pawn for some compensation.

WildeyeQ
madratter7 wrote:

If you run an engine on this position (and I sure hope this isn't an ongoing game), top moves are Qc1 and Qd2. Of the two, I would play Qd2.

Both moves have White rated as slightly worse.

I personally, would play Qd2 as it is the more active and challenging defense against black. I hate totally passive moves, as then your opponent can do anything they like (and usually it isn't good for you).

I looked for more active moves than Qd2 here, but unfortunately, they all fail.

I can't even find a half decent way to throw away the pawn for some compensation.

At what point did i make mistakes at the game. I followed all the opening principles. Chess can be tiring. 

Preggo_Basashi
WildeyeQ wrote:

At what point did i make mistakes at the game. I followed all the opening principles. Chess can be tiring. 

Yeah, chess is really hard. Following the opening principals is only the start, and even professionals can screw up their openings.

I replace your comments with my comments. 

 



Preggo_Basashi

Two biggest things I think

1) Bb5 was bad, because that's your "good" bishop.

2) Nc3 was bad, because you'd rather have your c pawn free to go to c3 or c4.

 

But the game was pretty good, and your rationale was good. You just lack experience. For example you're not supposed to know blocking the c pawn is bad on your own. That's pretty much impossible. That's something that comes with experience (whether playing or learning).

KingSullian

I dunno... sad.png I wud listen to da' strong playa'z here! happy.png 

 

Preg and da' Bacon man plus da' other peeps gave us golden nugget'z... happy.png 

WildeyeQ
Preggo_Basashi wrote:
WildeyeQ wrote:

At what point did i make mistakes at the game. I followed all the opening principles. Chess can be tiring. 

Yeah, chess is really hard. Following the opening principals is only the start, and even professionals can screw up their openings.

I replace your comments with my comments. 

 

 



Omg...  Preggo_Basashi you were more than helpful. It is clearer to me now. 

WildeyeQ
Preggo_Basashi wrote:

Two biggest things I think

1) Bb5 was bad, because that's your "good" bishop.

2) Nc3 was bad, because you'd rather have your c pawn free to go to c3 or c4.

 

But the game was pretty good, and your rationale was good. You just lack experience. For example you're not supposed to know blocking the c pawn is bad on your own. That's pretty much impossible. That's something that comes with experience (whether playing or learning).

How do you guys know all these things???  

IMKeto
WildeyeQ wrote:
Preggo_Basashi wrote:

Two biggest things I think

1) Bb5 was bad, because that's your "good" bishop.

2) Nc3 was bad, because you'd rather have your c pawn free to go to c3 or c4.

 

But the game was pretty good, and your rationale was good. You just lack experience. For example you're not supposed to know blocking the c pawn is bad on your own. That's pretty much impossible. That's something that comes with experience (whether playing or learning).

How do you guys know all these things???  

Just like with anything in life...time and practice :-)

What we "know" is the mere tip of the iceberg.