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Is there any chance that a 1300 rated player can beat a 2700 rated player?

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VanillaKnightPOC

It's more likely a 1300 will die facing a 2700 than win a game.

erikido23
arcaneterrain wrote:

For a serious answer.  About 35 years ago, when I was rated in the 1400s, I had a very good tournament game against a 2500 player (USCF).  The game was even, but I lost on time.  It was a complex position.  It was before computers, so I have never put it up to see how the computer viewed it.  So I think it is possible to get a decent game anyway.

Haha, funny story

TheChessJoker

never

TheChessJoker
splitleaf wrote:

About the same chance as a toddler has big wave riding?

 

BAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA 

Ziryab

Let's be realistic. We know the names of every player rated 2700+. These are not ordinary Grandmasters; these are the top 51 players in the world.


Rank Name Title Country Rating Games B-Year
 1  Carlsen, Magnus  g  NOR  2843  0  1990
 2  Aronian, Levon  g  ARM  2821  10  1982
 3  Kramnik, Vladimir  g  RUS  2795  9  1975
 4  Radjabov, Teimour  g  AZE  2792  9  1987
 5  Nakamura, Hikaru  g  USA  2786  9  1987
 6  Karjakin, Sergey  g  RUS  2780  10  1990
 7  Anand, Viswanathan  g  IND  2780  0  1969
 8  Caruana, Fabiano  g  ITA  2772  9  1992
 9  Ivanchuk, Vassily  g  UKR  2771  10  1969
 10  Morozevich, Alexander  g  RUS  2758  0  1977
 11  Kamsky, Gata  g  USA  2755  11  1974
 12  Grischuk, Alexander  g  RUS  2752  11  1983
 13  Topalov, Veselin  g  BUL  2751  10  1975
 14  Mamedyarov, Shakhriyar  g  AZE  2748  10  1985
 15  Wang, Hao  g  CHN  2748  10  1989
 16  Svidler, Peter  g  RUS  2747  0  1976
 17  Gashimov, Vugar  g  AZE  2737  0  1986
 18  Gelfand, Boris  g  ISR  2736  8  1968
 19  Ponomariov, Ruslan  g  UKR  2735  10  1983
 20  Dominguez Perez, Leinier  g  CUB  2734  10  1983
 21  Leko, Peter  g  HUN  2734  10  1979
 22  Wojtaszek, Radoslaw  g  POL  2733  13  1987
 23  Jakovenko, Dmitry  g  RUS  2732  9  1983
 24  Giri, Anish  g  NED  2730  7  1994
 25  Volokitin, Andrei  g  UKR  2724  9  1986
 26  Navara, David  g  CZE  2722  14  1985
 27  Adams, Michael  g  ENG  2720  10  1971
 28  Tomashevsky, Evgeny  g  RUS  2720  5  1987
 29  Shirov, Alexei  g  LAT  2718  10  1972
 30  Andreikin, Dmitry  g  RUS  2718  0  1990
 31  Bruzon Batista, Lazaro  g  CUB  2717  21  1982
 32  Malakhov, Vladimir  g  RUS  2713  14  1980
 33  McShane, Luke J  g  ENG  2713  0  1984
 34  Riazantsev, Alexander  g  RUS  2712  0  1985
 35  Cheparinov, Ivan  g  BUL  2710  24  1986
 36  Areshchenko, Alexander  g  UKR  2710  19  1986
 37  Jobava, Baadur  g  GEO  2710  10  1983
 38  Almasi, Zoltan  g  HUN  2707  10  1976
 39  Short, Nigel D  g  ENG  2707  10  1965
 40  Polgar, Judit  g  HUN  2705  10  1976
 41  Vachier-Lagrave, Maxime  g  FRA  2705  10  1990
 42  Bacrot, Etienne  g  FRA  2705  0  1983
 43  Korobov, Anton  g  UKR  2705  0  1985
 44  Naiditsch, Arkadij  g  GER  2704  10  1985
 45  Nepomniachtchi, Ian  g  RUS  2704  0  1990
 46  Le, Quang Liem  g  VIE  2703  14  1991
 47  Akopian, Vladimir  g  ARM  2703  10  1971
 48  Ding, Liren  g  CHN  2702  14  1992
 49  Fressinet, Laurent  g  FRA  2702  10  1981
 50  Vallejo Pons, Francisco  g  ESP  2700  11  1982
 51  Moiseenko, Alexander  g  UKR  2700  7  1980
plutonia
Ziryab wrote:

2500 is breakfast to a 2700

 

No...the ELO is a mathematical model that gives 200 points as an expected score of .75. Thus a 2700 would beat a 2500 most of the times (e.g. 75% win, 25% loss and 0 draws, or 50% win, 50% draw, 0 loss). He is stronger, but you don't have breakfast with players 200 points below you. They take effort to beat.

 

Of course there's no way a 1400 held his own against a 2500, I don't believe the story posted above.

rooperi
plutonia wrote:
.......

Of course there's no way a 1400 held his own against a 2500, I don't believe the story posted above.

Well, he did say he lost on time, and the positon was complicated.He probably just misunderstood how badly he was beaten.

MyCowsCanFly

Ziryab
plutonia wrote:
Ziryab wrote:

2500 is breakfast to a 2700

 

No...the ELO is a mathematical model that gives 200 points as an expected score of .75. Thus a 2700 would beat a 2500 most of the times (e.g. 75% win, 25% loss and 0 draws, or 50% win, 50% draw, 0 loss). He is stronger, but you don't have breakfast with players 200 points below you. They take effort to beat.

 

Of course there's no way a 1400 held his own against a 2500, I don't believe the story posted above.

It is possible to get indigestion from breakfast. Indeed, the popularity of pastries and cereals more or less assures digestive problems at least 25% of the time.

Indeed, looking through the latest edition of The Week in Chess, I located perhaps a dozen games between 2500ish players and 2700+ in which the lower rated player did not lose. Most of these were draws, and the lower rated player had White in all but one. There were two wins for the lower rateds, including this upset.



GSlowik

What if the 1300 rated player was rising in points, having only just started playing, and was a chess prodigy similar to Magnus Carlson? Then they could potentially win against the much higher ranking player. 

jaluo

it is not possible for a 1300 to beat a 2700 under normal circumstances. there are stages of development & 1300 is infancy. he should aim at beating 1500 or 1600 then develop like so.

solskytz

The story actually might have been true. When I was close to 1800 I lost in a 30 minute time control game to a strong Israeli 2600+ GM. 

The game was complex, and I got down to Q+R vs. Q+R where the GM told me later that I even had a slight advantage there - it was past move 30. 

His R had to guard a pawn on b2, which I was pressuring with my Q. 

The GM later told me that my mistake was moving the Q and letting go of that attack, thereby freeing his R. A mating attack on the combined action of his Q and R, to my great surprise, happened in just a few more moves!

I did get an even, slightly better game - but I didn't understand all of the undercurrents of the position, all of the "what can happen if"-s it contained. I didn't see the danger. 

1400 isn't 1800, true - but I don't know, The guy may have been playing that game well, and maybe the 2500 got into one of the openings where his playing his rather boring and conventional, didn't put that much effort into that game - we also don't know what the time controls were, and of course we don't know whether by the time the 1400 lost on time, whether his position was still even...

plutonia

^ Yes almost surely he was positionally busted when his time ran out.

 

Your game sounds interesting, do you have it?

I would appreciate if you could post it.

Ricardo_Morro

In the first round of my first class A tournament that I squeaked into with an 1803 rating, I was paired against a master. In the opening he played a reckless Schliemann Defense, opening his kingside, and before he knew it he had lost his rook in the corner and two pawns for my knight. All this inside of 5 minutes time combined. Then the master sat and thought for 50 (FIFTY) minutes. A half-dozen moves later, my queen was trapped in the corner and I lost. 

solskytz

<Plutonia> no - I didn't write it down, and even if I did, I changed into so many countries that none of my old games were saved... sorry about that :-) but I do remember the flow of the game, and some of the key events as written above. 

Elubas

Ziryab, thanks for posting that game.

Sometimes, you're just deep in thought, looking at 8 move variations... and forget "oh, he can just play g4 and my queen is randomly trapped, what the hell lol," and that's what happened there. Of course, I'm not looking at it too deeply -- maybe black couldn't have done anything about g4 by the time white played Ne5, although 38...Bxe5 or 38...Nxe5 look to be a lesser evil. In any case, patterns like that are so easy to just suddenly forget about, especially if you're starting to lose focus a little bit.

kontoleon

I don't know if posted priviously but if the player with 1300 score is new HERE not GENERAL, maybe the 1300 was plasmatic.

I meen that a player with 1300 elo (here) maybe plays years chess many tournaments and now want to play and online. 

Exept this the 2700 elo must by tragical error

Edit I meen with original player no from a steal player( with programs)

Ziryab
cookiemonster161140 wrote:
Ziryab wrote:
iixxPROxxii wrote:

Applying the "magical" ELO formula that returns the expected winning percentage of a player based off the rating difference, the 1300 player will win about 0.032% of games.... thats a measly 4 wins per 125 games.

It's hard to say whether the ELO system is very accurate when estimating the expected winning percentage of such a match because of the huge rating difference between the players. But still, 4 - 121 in favor of the 2700 player tells a strong story.

I think that you are misreading the Elo data. A 2700 playing a simul against 125 1300 players might give up four games on a bad day.

and those four would be draws.

I was a little over 1500 when I drew a 2500 IM in a 30 game simul. I missed a win, and he later missed a key move because he enforced touch move upon himself (not immediately seeing that he was in check). Later, he forced a repetition to salvage the game. He gave up two draws and two losses that night.

Those four might include a combination of draws and losses, but draws are more likely. Part of what makes a player 2700 is that he or she (her name is Judit) rarely loses.

cobra91
Ziryab wrote:

Indeed, looking through the latest edition of The Week in Chess, I located perhaps a dozen games between 2500ish players and 2700+ in which the lower rated player did not lose. Most of these were draws, and the lower rated player had White in all but one. There were two wins for the lower rateds, including this upset.

Just out of curiousity, is 39...Nxe5  40.dxe5 Rg6  41.exd6 Rxg4+  42.Rg2 Rxg2+  43.Nxg2 Bxd6  just as bad for Black as what was played? Because for me (a mere mortal), that position would be VERY tough to win against an opponent rated 200 points higher (or even a similarly rated opponent). And I might not have [immediately] resigned that against someone rated 200 pts. lower, either.

solskytz

Just a curiosity, someone here a couple of pages back 'accused' me of not 'even' being rated 2000 on this website... (I was rated 1800 something then - maybe a month ago)

well the impossible has happened - I bought a membership, did some Mentor courses and tactical training, et voila! Just made 2001 - so do feel free to congratulate me (chess.com already did, and it was really nice to receive their message - you'll know what message it was when you make 2000 yourself...)