Various methods were discussed here:
http://www.chess.com/forum/view/general/is-ivanov-a-cheater?page=2
Simple codes such as confederate standing behind certain people, hand signals, etc.
Various methods were discussed here:
http://www.chess.com/forum/view/general/is-ivanov-a-cheater?page=2
Simple codes such as confederate standing behind certain people, hand signals, etc.
Matching Houdini with such a high rate could never be considered luck...there has to be something else. It is either skill, or silicon.
well, if it was skill.... it wouldn't have lasted only a span of ten games.
s_palin1984, I know it is by now difficult to read this entire thread for someone just arriving. Refer to posts#130 and #161-
Basically, outside help with live broadcast and an engine, to obtain best moves. And a number of delivery systems to transfer data- mini-receivers in the ear, signals from the public area, coded transmissions using pulses etc.
Jesterville, you overstate how weak his playing level was before his transformation. Lilov also made some gross exaggerations, which weakened his entire argument.
Ivanov was about 2200 before this, unless you think he's been cheating since 2009.
"Jesterville, you overstate how weak his playing level was before his transformation. Lilov also made some gross exaggerations, which weakened his entire argument.
Ivanov was about 2200 before this, unless you think he's been cheating since 2009."
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Smyslov, I am not questioning his rating of 2200, I am merely indicating what his results actually were in Tournaments between 2011 and 2012, just prior to the miracle. Lilov actually questioned his rating and estimated it to actually be about 2000...but I am not doing this. The fact that he has never beated a 2200 player was also presented by Lilov as well. All I have said in my arguement actually took place.
"Jesterville, you overstate how weak his playing level was before his transformation. Lilov also made some gross exaggerations, which weakened his entire argument.
Ivanov was about 2200 before this, unless you think he's been cheating since 2009."
....................................................................................
Smyslov, I am not questioning his rating of 2200, I am merely indicating what his results actually were in Tournaments between 2011 and 2012, just prior to the miracle. Lilov actually questioned his rating and estimated it to actually be about 2000...but I am not doing this. The fact that he has never beated a 2200 player was also presented by Lilov as well. All I have said in my arguement actually took place.
Repeating a falsehood doesn't make it true.
Ivanov beat several players rated +2200 before 2011. In April 2010, he beat GM Boris Spassov.
http://ratings.fide.com/individual_calculations.phtml?idnumber=2903741&rating_period=2010-07-01&t=0
This does not exonerate or explain his current behavior, it only weakens your own arguments against him.
Does it matter if Ivanov is proven innocent or guilty in this forum?
He won't be proven anything in this forum. We're just amusing ourselves.
SmyslovFan, I stand corected. I took the point of "never beating a 2200 player" from Lilov. I think what he meant was, he had not beaten a 2200 player in two years ie. between 2011 and 2012. It in no way however, affects the "miracle" that happened, and my claim that the events that transpired are just too miraculous to be believable.
The main point being. If he cheated, we know of how he could have done so. But if he did not cheat, what logical/believable explanation can account for his "bad" play over the past two years, and the sudden increase in his chess powers? I tried, but I could not think of any.
There is no factual basis on how they pulled it off.Though i believe he cheated we may never know the "how".
Unless he confesses his methods, speculation is all we have regarding the means he used. Some of the guesses are based on methods people were actually caught using in past cases. Some guesses might have a basis in science fiction.
However, we can have a fairly high degree of certainty that Ivanov did indeed cheat.
In chess.com, a man is guilty until we can prove otherwise. Since Mr. Houdini has been keeping mum about his involvement and we cannot conclusively prove that Ivanov is innocent, the verdict is clear. Mr. Borislav Ivanov is guilty. He is barred from touching any chessman and chessboard for a lifetime. Send the man away. We don't need another smart ass in chess.
Next in line is Mr. Garry Kasparov. Bring 'im in.
Correct, we can only speculate as to how he cheated. But if he did cheat, we can logically explain the various methods in which he could have done so...including micro ear-implants which is being quoted at 50 Euros.
But if we take the stand that he did not cheat, there is no human, logical basis that can explain his meteoric increase in chess understanding to allow him to perform the way he did, in such a short period of time.
Shoes, people. Shoes. The thing that makes a smartphone vibrate. Implant it inside the shoe. When moves are transmitted live, the accomplice transmits the Houdini move and the implant vibrates. Say the move is Nf3 to g5. The sequence is: six vibrations (for F), short pause, three vibrations (for 3), long pause, seven vibrations (for G), short pause, five vibrations (for 5).
Shoes, people. Shoes. The thing that makes a smartphone vibrate. Implant it inside the shoe. When moves are transmitted live, the accomplice transmits the Houdini move and the implant vibrates. Say the move is Nf3 to g5. The sequence is: six vibrations (for F), short pause, three vibrations (for 3), long pause, seven vibrations (for G), short pause, five vibrations (for 5).
Stop giving my secrets away.
SmyslovFan, I stand corected. I took the point of "never beating a 2200 player" from Lilov. I think what he meant was, he had not beaten a 2200 player in two years ie. between 2011 and 2012. ...
This statement is also factually incorrect. In September 2011, he defeated a 2400 and scored 4.5/9 against a field that included seven players rated over 2200.
I think we can take something from "occam's razor" here-
Only two options could be the truth-
1. He did not cheat, and
2. He did cheat.
If he did cheat, there are a number of ways he could have done this, which is both simple and cheap.
If he did not cheat, then what happened was-
...he was playing poorly before, being beaten by 1900, 2000, and 2100, and drawing with 1800 (between 2011 and 2012). He never before defeated a 2200 player. But a miracle took place in a space of 2 weeks, where he was beating Houdini and Rybka 10-0, where he was checkmating GMs 2600, where he was playing like Houdini 3 on most of his moves, where he was now performing at a rating above 3000 (which is greater than Fischer, Kasparov, Anand, Kramnik, and Carlsen), where for some unknown reason to him his new silicon performance suddenly disappeared when the live broadcast went down....
...all you need is a logical mind to decide for yourself which is the more likely, and which is the baloney.