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Ivanov speaks out!
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Feb 10, 2013
0
#383
AdamRinkleff wrote:
SerbianChessStarr wrote:
to all you ivanov defenders. SHUT UP.
I think, for most of us 'defenders', its not that we actually think he is innocent. I'm fairly sure he cheated. It's more a question of jurisprudence. What does it take to 'prove' cheating? Its easy to jump to conclusions, even correct conclusions, but how does one establish a firmly objective standard? That's the real question. In defending Ivanov, we aren't saying he didn't cheat, we are saying that there needs to be a clearly defined process, which there currently isn't.
*********
This is an excellent point whatever someone thinks about the issue of Ivanov and his cheating or lack of it.
SerbianChessStarr wrote:
rusconi wrote:
SerbianChessStarr wrote:
rusconi wrote:
Reb wrote:
I would bet the farm that the average rating of those who thinks he didnt cheat is several classes lower than those who think he did cheat .
OMG you must be a genius (just joking, in case you have difficulties understanding satire)! If law would just worked that way! Ops no, I forgot law in your country works that way, since you lynched a lot of innocents especially in southern states. My 5 cent? I guess you must be from the south of USA, with that lynch mentality you clearly portrait, nothing changed there!
Continue to murder people who are innocents, that the way it goes in your country!
If it happens that you have libraries nearby, maybe go there and ask the librarian to show you the section about laws, justice, scientific method, it will open your eyes how far we advanced.
Meanwhile, if you are interested in taking part in this debate seriously, instead of just being arrogant and speaking of rating, then try to explain why FIDE doesn't think Ivanov is a cheater, since he wasn't suspended, and none of the national federations banned or suspended him either.
There are no investigations on his name, and strangely he is still playing in national tournaments.
You say "you" as if he personally did that. I'm sure reb didn't kill any innocent people, in fact i assure you he hasn't killed anyone at all. So randomly babling about his countries past is quite foolish. As to "Why FIDE doesn't THINK he cheated" Well, they did search him. So clearly they do THINK he cheated. They just don't have concrete evidence, because finding such evidence is almost if not IMPOSSIBLE in these circumstances. They aren't going to probe his eyes out, rip off his ears to find a microphone, there's only so much they can do. I guarantee you fide thinks he cheated, but they can't ban him because that would lay a rotton egg amongst the entire administration. Your rant and point are complete and utter bull****. He cheated, his performance rating was 700 points above his normal rating. He played 90+% 1st canidate houdini moves. An expieriences player would be able to tell that some of his moves made flat out no sense to a human mind. No point in arguing with a patzer who thinks he knows it all, goodbye.
Yeah, someone with the name "Serbian...", and the Syrian flag who vouches for an American he shouldn't know at all... lots of credibility!
Especially when you say that you know what FIDE thinks, does, and so on, but omit how you know, and share your FIDE sources with us.
You even mistake what a TD maybe did (did they really search him? Also that evidence is quite thin, bordering the hearsay, based on what you read, not on facts) with what FIDE does.
I have a serbian heritage, but thanks for the concern. Smart ass.
As to your additional illogical points, yes, they did search him. If you watched the videos on this it was even stated by a native FM. And was published in articles. Also, i don't have to know reb to know he hasn't killed anybody. Quit being such a conspiracy theorist, you're just making an ass of yourself.
FM Lilov wasn't present to the "search" so he can state what he wants, but it is totally irrelevant. And many things are published in articles which are not true. They generally have the first page and huge characters, and then they put the excuses in the 10th page in small characters that nobody reads. Are you really that naive? So your Syrian flag is fake like your heritage?
Here there are no conspiracies, and it seems to me that you are just the average american.
I have stated some facts, you come out with irrelevant material, now you don't quote anymore your FIDE sources, because you also know that was a lie.
Now, my question is: but are all the mob lynching people ignorant of the facts as you are? Is it really so difficult to check the facts?
Again the same questions:
1. Do you have any proof that FIDE is investigating Ivanov for cheating? (which means to quote an official FIDE source, not your friend on video)
2. Do you have any evidence that Bulgarian/Croatian federation investigates Ivanov as a cheater?
3. How do you explain that if Ivanov is such a cheater, he is playing and he has not been suspended?
oh boy...
rusconi wrote:
SerbianChessStarr wrote:
rusconi wrote:
SerbianChessStarr wrote:
rusconi wrote:
Reb wrote:
I would bet the farm that the average rating of those who thinks he didnt cheat is several classes lower than those who think he did cheat .
OMG you must be a genius (just joking, in case you have difficulties understanding satire)! If law would just worked that way! Ops no, I forgot law in your country works that way, since you lynched a lot of innocents especially in southern states. My 5 cent? I guess you must be from the south of USA, with that lynch mentality you clearly portrait, nothing changed there!
Continue to murder people who are innocents, that the way it goes in your country!
If it happens that you have libraries nearby, maybe go there and ask the librarian to show you the section about laws, justice, scientific method, it will open your eyes how far we advanced.
Meanwhile, if you are interested in taking part in this debate seriously, instead of just being arrogant and speaking of rating, then try to explain why FIDE doesn't think Ivanov is a cheater, since he wasn't suspended, and none of the national federations banned or suspended him either.
There are no investigations on his name, and strangely he is still playing in national tournaments.
You say "you" as if he personally did that. I'm sure reb didn't kill any innocent people, in fact i assure you he hasn't killed anyone at all. So randomly babling about his countries past is quite foolish. As to "Why FIDE doesn't THINK he cheated" Well, they did search him. So clearly they do THINK he cheated. They just don't have concrete evidence, because finding such evidence is almost if not IMPOSSIBLE in these circumstances. They aren't going to probe his eyes out, rip off his ears to find a microphone, there's only so much they can do. I guarantee you fide thinks he cheated, but they can't ban him because that would lay a rotton egg amongst the entire administration. Your rant and point are complete and utter bull****. He cheated, his performance rating was 700 points above his normal rating. He played 90+% 1st canidate houdini moves. An expieriences player would be able to tell that some of his moves made flat out no sense to a human mind. No point in arguing with a patzer who thinks he knows it all, goodbye.
Yeah, someone with the name "Serbian...", and the Syrian flag who vouches for an American he shouldn't know at all... lots of credibility!
Especially when you say that you know what FIDE thinks, does, and so on, but omit how you know, and share your FIDE sources with us.
You even mistake what a TD maybe did (did they really search him? Also that evidence is quite thin, bordering the hearsay, based on what you read, not on facts) with what FIDE does.
I have a serbian heritage, but thanks for the concern. Smart ass.
As to your additional illogical points, yes, they did search him. If you watched the videos on this it was even stated by a native FM. And was published in articles. Also, i don't have to know reb to know he hasn't killed anybody. Quit being such a conspiracy theorist, you're just making an ass of yourself.
FM Lilov wasn't present to the "search" so he can state what he wants, but it is totally irrelevant. And many things are published in articles which are not true. They generally have the first page and huge characters, and then they put the excuses in the 10th page in small characters that nobody reads. Are you really that naive? So your Syrian flag is fake like your heritage?
Here there are no conspiracies, and it seems to me that you are just the average american.
I have stated some facts, you come out with irrelevant material, now you don't quote anymore your FIDE sources, because you also know that was a lie.
Now, my question is: but are all the mob lynching people ignorant of the facts as you are? Is it really so difficult to check the facts?
Again the same questions:
1. Do you have any proof that FIDE is investigating Ivanov for cheating? (which means to quote an official FIDE source, not your friend on video)
2. Do you have any evidence that Bulgarian/Croatian federation investigates Ivanov as a cheater?
3. How do you explain that if Ivanov is such a cheater, he is playing and he has not been suspended?
My flag isn't fake and nor is my heritage, you're a complete moron. First off, I'm not even American so i don't understand what you were saying there. Second off I'm not treating this as life or death as you are, you're trying to make a really simple subject into a court case. You want facts. Here you go. He beat multiple Super GM's, yet the next month went and lost to a 1900, how does this happen? What happened to the Ivanov who had turned into houdini? I'll tell you what, he didn't cheat this time because of all the heat he got from his tournament where he CHEATED. What reason would the articles have to lie to say he was searched? None, not everyone is like you and needs a bunch of bull**** to make a big deal out of. Now if you're done insulting my heritage, my country, and reb's country. I'll be on my way.
Feb 10, 2013
0
#387
I hope that when the moderators finally come over to this thread, they realise it was polluted by just one poster and they will censor Rusconi rather than lock the thread.
Feb 10, 2013
0
#388
SmyslovFan wrote:
I hope that when the moderators finally come over to this thread, they realise it was polluted by just one poster and they will censor Rusconi rather than lock the thread.
It wouldn't make any different, he'll just come back as someone else.
kco wrote:
SmyslovFan wrote:
I hope that when the moderators finally come over to this thread, they realise it was polluted by just one poster and they will censor Rusconi rather than lock the thread.
It wouldn't make any different, he'll just come back as someone else.
lol. this one got me off of my chair
Whatever it takes to kill these quote towers, let it happen, God.
goldendog wrote:
Whatever it takes to kill these quote towers, let it happen, God.
I apologize for my towering lol.
Godfather theme playing in the background....
SmyslovFan wrote:
I hope that when the moderators finally come over to this thread, they realise it was polluted by just one poster and they will censor Rusconi rather than lock the thread.
Of course, someone with a dissenting opinion must be censored, otherwise it wouldn't be a good mob-lynching!
I'm aware that my argument to follow may not be scientific, statistical, expert, or conclusive, but here's my two cents anyway:
Consider this:
"I dont think there was anything special in my games at all. The Croatian GMs made some horrible mistakes during our games." ~~ Ivanov, as quoted in the interview posted here
So he claims to not have consciously made brilliant moves or plans, and at the same time he judges that his opponents - the Croatian GMs - had made poor moves. OK.
Now consider this point, written by the user FirebrandX on post #123 (sorry, I don't know how to quote posts from different pages):
"When the GM made a slight tactical error, Mr. Ivanov's moves were EXACTLY the same as how Houdini 2 wanted to exploit the weakness. And we're not talking some simple strip sac to win, but rather these were tactics that were counter-intuitive to human beings and incredibly complex (hence why the GMs fell for them in the first place)."
So when Ivanov saw that the GMs "made some horrible mistakes", did he not at least try to refute them based on his calculations and whatnot? Because if he did, his tactics certainly turned out to be of a superhuman, GM-beating quality, and definitely not nothing special as he claimed.
Edit: So I guess my point is that he could not have matched the computer moves merely by coincidence, since he successfully pulled off tactical (not quiet) moves outside of his shown performance level. And to a lesser degree, that even if I win the lottery 3 times in a day and Ivanov happens to have not cheated, he was at the least dishonest in his interview.
acertaineffort wrote:
Consider this:
"I dont think there was anything special in my games at all. The Croatian GMs made some horrible mistakes during our games." ~~ Ivanov, as quoted in the interview posted here
Yah, that's a good point. A normal person would be like, "I don't know what happened! I was in the zone! It was like everything just connected, for a brief moment, and suddenly I just had these intense focus. I hope I can do it again, but I really don't know how I did it."
But, I guess, after you 10-0 Houdini, such performance becomes almost passe.
all cheats should play football instead
Ivanov revealed how foolish he is by actually playing again so soon. If he were smart, he would have taken a year off chess and waited for the world to forget about him, but then if he were smart, he wouldn't have cheated so obviously in the first place.
I stil don't understand why he cheated so obviously though. Could he really actually believe that it wouldn't be completely obvious if he played practically every move in line with Houdini, when even the best GMs in the world can't do that? I don't see how he could not have thought about that beforehand.
Maybe there is more to the story than meets the eye though. Perhaps Ivanov is preparing to sell these devices online and this is all actually good publicity, because it's very easy to verify that he was strongly suspected of cheating and yet they were unable to find any physical evidence. Perhaps he was payed a decent sum of money to test out some proof-of-concept system, and he was just doing it for the money?
What other explanations are there that make more sense than the idea that he didn't expect to get caught? I suppose he might have thought that statistical evidence wouldn't be enough, but it's surely enough for everybody to think he's a cheater, even if it's not enough for him to be prevented from playing chess.
Cough.. just be aware that I am not that Egyptian imposter.
Feb 10, 2013
0
#399
pellik wrote:
It couldn't have been more obvious that he was cheating. He should just stay out of the spotlight and wait for this whole thing to blow over. It figures that cheaters have quite an ego, though, so I'm not surprised that he wants to come out and publicly deny the obvious.
I'm curious, how does one cheat in a live tournament? Is that even possible?
Feb 10, 2013
0
#400
dragonair234 wrote:
pellik wrote:
It couldn't have been more obvious that he was cheating. He should just stay out of the spotlight and wait for this whole thing to blow over. It figures that cheaters have quite an ego, though, so I'm not surprised that he wants to come out and publicly deny the obvious.
I'm curious, how does one cheat in a live tournament? Is that even possible?
have you tried to read the rest of the thread ?, there were some answers there.
I would bet the farm that the average rating of those who thinks he didnt cheat is several classes lower than those who think he did cheat .
OMG you must be a genius (just joking, in case you have difficulties understanding satire)! If law would just worked that way! Ops no, I forgot law in your country works that way, since you lynched a lot of innocents especially in southern states. My 5 cent? I guess you must be from the south of USA, with that lynch mentality you clearly portrait, nothing changed there!
Continue to murder people who are innocents, that the way it goes in your country!
If it happens that you have libraries nearby, maybe go there and ask the librarian to show you the section about laws, justice, scientific method, it will open your eyes how far we advanced.
Meanwhile, if you are interested in taking part in this debate seriously, instead of just being arrogant and speaking of rating, then try to explain why FIDE doesn't think Ivanov is a cheater, since he wasn't suspended, and none of the national federations banned or suspended him either.
There are no investigations on his name, and strangely he is still playing in national tournaments.
You say "you" as if he personally did that. I'm sure reb didn't kill any innocent people, in fact i assure you he hasn't killed anyone at all. So randomly babling about his countries past is quite foolish. As to "Why FIDE doesn't THINK he cheated" Well, they did search him. So clearly they do THINK he cheated. They just don't have concrete evidence, because finding such evidence is almost if not IMPOSSIBLE in these circumstances. They aren't going to probe his eyes out, rip off his ears to find a microphone, there's only so much they can do. I guarantee you fide thinks he cheated, but they can't ban him because that would lay a rotton egg amongst the entire administration. Your rant and point are complete and utter bull****. He cheated, his performance rating was 700 points above his normal rating. He played 90+% 1st canidate houdini moves. An expieriences player would be able to tell that some of his moves made flat out no sense to a human mind. No point in arguing with a patzer who thinks he knows it all, goodbye.
Yeah, someone with the name "Serbian...", and the Syrian flag who vouches for an American he shouldn't know at all... lots of credibility!
Especially when you say that you know what FIDE thinks, does, and so on, but omit how you know, and share your FIDE sources with us.
You even mistake what a TD maybe did (did they really search him? Also that evidence is quite thin, bordering the hearsay, based on what you read, not on facts) with what FIDE does.
I have a serbian heritage, but thanks for the concern. Smart ass.
As to your additional illogical points, yes, they did search him. If you watched the videos on this it was even stated by a native FM. And was published in articles. Also, i don't have to know reb to know he hasn't killed anybody. Quit being such a conspiracy theorist, you're just making an ass of yourself.